giving notice for rented flat advice needed

prudryden

A periodic tenancy automatically follows the fixed-term if the parties do nothing (i.e. they do not sign another agreement) and the tenancy will be on the same basis as the original agreement, with all the same clauses and conditions being operative.

Question is: If the fixed term agreement called for two months notice, does the above imply that the periodic tenancy now also requires a two months notice?

There have been several discussions on this on several web sites - with no one actually providing any legal guidance or proof of what is actually correct.
In practical terms, I would give one months notice and just leave as it still seems to be a gray area unless someone can give actual legal responses.

prudryden

Form 1 - 'Notice proposing different terms for Statutory Periodic Tenancy' - Housing Act 1988 s.6(2)
Use this form if you wish to alter any of the terms of a statutory periodic tenancy.
A statutory periodic tenancy automatically arises at the expiry of a fixed term tenancy and the terms in the original agreement will continue to apply. The notice must be served within twelve months of the former tenancy coming to an end and must provide the landlord or tenant at least three months notice of the proposed change. The form should not be used to propose an increase or decrease in rent unless the change in rent is in order to take into account the changes proposed on the form. If the landlord and tenant are in agreement regarding the proposed changes, the proposed terms become part of the terms of the agreement on the effective date stated in the notice.

This refers to a form whereby terms of the original agreement can be changed if going into a statutory periodic tenancy. Note in the above that it also states that the terms of the original agreement will continue to apply. Anyone care to comment - seems confusing to me.

tbs624

A Periodic Tenancy is a Statutory Tenancy and any Terms of the originating Tenancy Agreement cannot over-ride the law. My understanding is that, under the Housing Act 1988, the Tenant’s notice period for a Periodic Tenancy is determined by the frequency of rent payments under the preceding AST .

See also: “The law requires that any tenant must give formal notice in writing to the landlord; the requirements for such notice must be in writing, must expire on the last day (or the next day) of the tenancy period, and must be not less than one calendar month for a monthly tenancy (four weeks for a weekly tenancy).” Laine & Mitchell v Cadwaller & Cadwaller (2001) and an appeal case Church Commissioners for England v Meya (2006)

Therefore: rent paid monthly =notice from Tenant of not less than 1 month, and rent paid weekly= notice from Tenant not less than 4 weeks (28days), rent paid quarterly + Tenant’s notice not less than 3 months. Clearly the Tenant may give a longer period of Notice but isn’t under any obligation to do so AFAIAA: the LL is, however, obliged to give 2 month’s Notice.

Lynne - you are also within your rights to request that any viewings by any potential new tenants are agreed in advance for a mutually convenient time.

Do seek confirmation locally from the Council’s Tenancy Relations Officer (private rentals section in Housing Dept) who can liaise between you and your LL if you find him/her difficult to deal with

prudryden

tbs624 wrote: »

A Periodic Tenancy is a Statutory Tenancy and any Terms of the originating Tenancy Agreement cannot over-ride the law. My understanding is that, under the Housing Act 1988, the Tenant’s notice period for a Periodic Tenancy is determined by the frequency of rent payments under the preceding AST .

See also: “The law requires that any tenant must give formal notice in writing to the landlord; the requirements for such notice must be in writing, must expire on the last day (or the next day) of the tenancy period, and must be not less than one calendar month for a monthly tenancy (four weeks for a weekly tenancy).” Laine & Mitchell v Cadwaller & Cadwaller (2001) and an appeal case Church Commissioners for England v Meya (2006)

Therefore: rent paid monthly =notice from Tenant of not less than 1 month, and rent paid weekly= notice from Tenant not less than 4 weeks (28days), rent paid quarterly + Tenant’s notice not less than 3 months. Clearly the Tenant may give a longer period of Notice but isn’t under any obligation to do so AFAIAA: the LL is, however, obliged to give 2 month’s Notice.

Lynne - you are also within your rights to request that any viewings by any potential new tenants are agreed in advance for a mutually convenient time.

Do seek confirmation locally from the Council’s Tenancy Relations Officer (private rentals section in Housing Dept) who can liaise between you and your LL if you find him/her difficult to deal with

But why isn't it an obligation to give two months notice (the tenant) if the original contract calls for two months. Your quotes above say "not less than". I have seen other quotes re: tenant notices stating "at least one month". Does that now not leave room for "more than" one month e.g. two months as per original agreement? Does the law actually state the notice period is equal to the rent period or does it have to be AT LEAST equal to the rent period?

Can you explain what the above quoted cases in essence state? I'm still not convinced one way or the other, but have seen arguments both ways with no concrete answer.

lynne1985

thanks everyone for your replies, as its an estate agent i'm renting from i thought they would know the "rules" i mentioned on the phone the fact that i had no tenancy agreement and had been told that due to this i only had to give 4 weeks notice, when i mentioned this they said about if they let the property before i move out then the 4 weeks notice is fine, its all too confusing for me. The other problem i have is that the property is in need of some decoration and new carpets (carpets were really worn when i moved in, i have vaxed them quite a lot since i moved in but most of the stains won't budge) as the house was bought over while i was still living in it how can i prove what state the property was when i first rented it? i have decorated two of the rooms since i moved in but haven't bothered painting the hall (which is white and in need of decoration) do you think it would be worthwhile giving this a fresh lick of paint? sorry for going on and on, im just really hopeless at this sort of thing

tbs624

prudryden wrote: »

But why isn't it an obligation to give two months notice (the tenant) if the original contract calls for two months.

If the original contract was a Fixed Term AST then IMO there was no requirement for the Tenant to actually give any Notice at all during that Fixed Term, provided that the intention was to leave on or before the expiry date ( having paid the rent for the full Term) or both sides were content for a Periodic to come into force.

prudryden

Did the landlord give you a 12m AST every year before this last one which ended November? If he didn't give you a new contract this time, did he say why? (I wonder if it has something to do with the deposit.) I take it your deposit is not protected in a TDS scheme.
Do you have a copy of the original check-in condition report or was there one? If there wasn't one, the LL will have difficulty in justifying any deductions.

tbs624

Lynne - lots of people find it confusing and some LAs do take advantage if they think a tenant doesn't know their rights ( sometimes it's actually that their own grasp of tenancy issues is not that good either because many of them have no training and very little experience)

If you think you are going to have problems with the Letting Agent do ring the TRO or talk to someone at the CAB - the advice is free from both, and because they are local they can help with you with letters etc if you have problems getting your deposit back.

prudryden

tbs624 wrote: »

If the original contract was a Fixed Term AST then IMO there was no requirement for the Tenant to actually give any Notice at all during that Fixed Term, provided that the intention was to leave on or before the expiry date ( having paid the rent for the full Term) or both sides were content for a Periodic to come into force.

Eh? I thought we were discussing in general whether a tenant had to abide by the original contractual terms once it went into a Periodic either by design or by default. (Contract or Statutory periodic)

hostman

prudryden wrote: »

But why isn't it an obligation to give two months notice (the tenant) if the original contract calls for two months. Your quotes above say "not less than". I have seen other quotes re: tenant notices stating "at least one month". Does that now not leave room for "more than" one month e.g. two months as per original agreement? Does the law actually state the notice period is equal to the rent period or does it have to be AT LEAST equal to the rent period?

Can you explain what the above quoted cases in essence state? I'm still not convinced one way or the other, but have seen arguments both ways with no concrete answer.

As the OP said, the original contract expired three months ago.

The tenant has not signed a new agreement. Therefore, according to current legislation, the agreement roles onto something called "Periodic Tenancy Agreement", the legislation states when this happens, the notice period for a tenant is one month if he or she wants to leave, but the land lord needs to give the tenant two months notice if he wants the tenant out.