Abbey Pension Rip off

The_Famous_Cash

New to this from today but I wondered if anyone else has been subjected to my problem. In 1980 (When £2,000 was real money), I invested a one-off, lump sum of £2,000 with Abbey Life Property Pension Scheme. I was promised great returns. Twenty years later it was worth less than the £2,000 I put in! Apparently, the self-employed salesman entered it as a regular investment scheme. (I reckon he got better commission) but Abbey refuse to do anything. The Ombudsman refuses also. Who else has been treated this way?

Retired_I.F.A.

Quite a few suckers fell for what sounds like a back to back scheme like this wherby the lump sum was paid into a non tax free investment bond paying around 5% commission and withdrawels from it were paid into another plan be it an endowment or a pension plan with commission depending on the term as much as 75% of a years premiums.

Common sense should have told you having £2000 and tax relief with it orr on it invested from day one as a single contract paying around 5% only invested in the tax exempt pension fund for those 20 years would have been far better, unfortunately you did not see that, even more unfotunately after 20 years you only now do.

Such investments were one of the reasons for the setting up of financial services act 1986 but plans effected before such are excluded fom any compensation awards.

dunstonh

Investment returns are not something you can complain about. No-one knows the future and investments can go down as well as up.

I looked up Abbey's funds and apparantly there was no property fund in 1980. Abbey Launched theirs in 1997. Hill Samuel (which later was absorbed into Abbey) had a property fund that launched in 1986. There appears to be no other property fund listed under Abbey. Have you any other details on the fund because I can not find it.

Just looking at the Abbey HS property fund, its grown 581.4% since 1986. So, for yours to show no growth and not even make any money on the tax relief does seem strange.

You only mention 20 years later (which is 2000) and the same fund had growth to 289%. WHat has it done in the 8 years since then? Do you get statements, if so why have you not looked at the investment element before?

You typically get annual statements on contracts. Why have you a

bigbloke45

What happened is that the salesman took your £2,000 and divided it into two years contributions of £1,000 each, by backdating the first one by a year.

This meant that he would have received commission as for an annual premium of £1,000 and you received two year's premiums subject to Abbey Life's capital unit charges as they would have charged your plan as an annual contribution.

I'm not sure what you can do now about this, but it is unethical to say the least. Remember that lots of these people now work for St. James' Place, so be aware!

dunstonh

I'm surprised the FOS didnt rule in the OPs favour is that was the case. That's a blatant abuse (and yes it did happen) but the lack of a positive outcome surprises me. I bet you Abbey have it documented as a regular premium that you chose to stop.

purch

I bet you Abbey have it documented as a regular premium that you chose to stop.

Almost certainly.

And you cannot expect an ordinary investor to know that if the 'salesconman' has ticked the regular premium box on the application form it is going to cost you 'dearly'..............cos he's a nice bloke who smiles a lot a tells you how much money you are going to have.

It's exactly what the conman from Allied Dunbar did to me when I set up my FSAVC, even though he was told many times that I was just putting away part of that years bonus payment, and I certainly couldn't guarantee to get a bonus every year till retirement, thus couldn't guarantee to make a contribution every year. Even when I queried the application form the smooth operator just shrugged it off as having no effect on the policy, except that it meant I could, if I wanted make further contributions.

Now I know how many thousands that little tick in a box cost me, but of course nothing is provable, especially not to the ludicrously high standards set by the Authorities. :mad:

EdInvestor

Has anyone tried making a misselling complaint re the regular/single contributions incorrectly designated? I thought I remembered someone had done so and won, perhaps a couple of years ago?

The_Famous_Cash

Many thanks for your responses. Being new, I am not sure of the protocol. However, after I signed for this one-off single investment, I moved home and did not receive annual notices. It was only much later I realised I should have checked. The salesman I discovered was on huge commission and the form had been "ticked" as the first of regulat payments. As I understand, Abbey Life was the largest, owning premium property such as that occuppied by Austin Reed and many large firms.
I was so sure I would obtain justice, I had my M.P. try to reverse the ombudsman's opinion. My claim has been going on for years and years. (Margaret Thatcher was even asked about it by my M.P. when she was P.M.!) The papers are not interested and appeals are dismissed saying there is no new evidence.
The licence to steal from investors should be investigated properly and the countless millions these firms make should be returned to their victims.
Anyway, I just wondered how common this legalised theft was.
Thanks.

Retired_I.F.A.

So what your saying is you were suckered into a regular contract thinking it was a one off payment, you then moved house before you had the cooling off notice that was sent within a few days after you signed, which in writing confirmed it was not a one off payment, or you never read it. Then you never had the policy when issued a few days later or you ignored that too. Then twenty years on you still hadn't bothered to ask anything about the money you handed over or you had just ignored all the annual statements issued. And no doubt having been told (in a more lar-de-dar way but still the same) "it's you own fault for being so gullible, for not enquiring about the plan in 20 odd years, or "your a bloody liar" by the regulators, and "either way there is no proof you were conned so stop wasting our time" you now come on here and whinge about it.


How many l's in Bo??ocks? Your tale is as believable as Mary Poppins.

The papers are not interested and appeals are dismissed saying there is no new evidence.

Of course no ones interested the only evidence is a paper trail showing a quite legitimate sale. You have no case. Justice has prevailed.

The licence to steal from investors should be investigated properly and the countless millions these firms make should be returned to their victims.
Anyway, I just wondered how common this legalised theft was.

An absolute crap rant mate. Do yourself a favor and get on with your life.

bigbloke45

TFC, retired IFA does have a point and, may I say, so delicately put!

After 28 years, I really think you should put this event down to experience. It happened to many people and, I hope, they have moved on. Don't you think using all of the energy this obviously is, it might be best placed to secure your future?

We, I'm sure, have all been "legged over" from time to time and, unfortunately, there are times when there is nothing more we can do about it. Surely then best to learn from our mistakes and then go forward. We can use our experiences to try and warn our younger friends not to repeat our errors.

Lastly, I really think you should forgive yourself for your actions so long ago.

Enjoy the future, don't let the past spoil it!

bigbloke45

purch wrote: »

Almost certainly.

And you cannot expect an ordinary investor to know that if the 'salesconman' has ticked the regular premium box on the application form it is going to cost you 'dearly'..............cos he's a nice bloke who smiles a lot a tells you how much money you are going to have.

It's exactly what the conman from Allied Dunbar did to me when I set up my FSAVC, even though he was told many times that I was just putting away part of that years bonus payment, and I certainly couldn't guarantee to get a bonus every year till retirement, thus couldn't guarantee to make a contribution every year. Even when I queried the application form the smooth operator just shrugged it off as having no effect on the policy, except that it meant I could, if I wanted make further contributions.

Now I know how many thousands that little tick in a box cost me, but of course nothing is provable, especially not to the ludicrously high standards set by the Authorities. :mad:

Purch, the story you have told is so true and very common, I'm afraid to say.

The reason that they could get away with it is because, although a unit linked pension is sold as an "Annual" or "Single" contribution plan, in reality, there is no difference; each payment buys a number of units based upon the plan charges and the value of the units being purchased at the time.

So, for an "annual" contribution there would have been "Capital Unit" charges taken from the first two year's contributions. (I can go into lot's more detail about how these work), but for the meantime the main point is that Allied Dunbar allowed salespeople to take a single contribution and split into two annual contributions by backdating the first half to a previous "year", (just a financial calculation) so that the "Capital Units" for both "years" have now been taken.

So, when your salesman said that you could then make variable contributions after your first "Single" contribution, he was correct. What he didn't tell you was the scam he had done in the first place.

This was all done with the connivance of Hambro Life/Allied Dunbar who would have known what was going on.

But, hey, look on the bright side, it earned Mark Weinberg a knighthood.

I know it's no consolation, but there are many other insurance companies that did the same; Commercial Union, for one, whose charges made Allied Dunbar look positively amateur!

Not to mention Irish Life!