What if HBOS Goes Ahead with a Right Issue?

earlgrey_3

ianmr65 wrote: »

I didn't name any specific bank, you did. And i am not creating a rumour. The rumour has been there all along.

IIRC It was you who were stating as a fact the ludicrous proposition that HBOS "were within a day of going bust" along with many of your other inaccuracies.

The problem is that casual users to forums like these aren't likely to be aware of your history of fantasies.

These forums could be an excellent resource for information. Unfortunately, it's the one or two fantasists who camp out here spilling out nonsense that undermine this resource and make it so unreliable. Great shame.

royeee

There was an article in yesterday's Mail On Sunday which I think is a balanced one though it seem to conclude with 'sell' as HBOS relies more on savings and mortgages which in the current situation means potentially slow growth.

ianmr65

earlgrey wrote: »

IIRC It was you who were stating as a fact the ludicrous proposition that HBOS "were within a day of going bust" along with many of your other inaccuracies.

The problem is that casual users to forums like these aren't likely to be aware of your history of fantasies.

These forums could be an excellent resource for information. Unfortunately, it's the one or two fantasists who camp out here spilling out nonsense that undermine this resource and make it so unreliable. Great shame.

eg - I have yet to see a post from you with eveidence that backs up your suppositions. We have had post after post from you regarding icelandic / non uk based banks, none of which shed much light, and all of which were inaacurate and misleading, and a great deal more fanciful than anything i have ever posted.

I think my thanked post ratio stands up to how much other people on here value my insights. Not something that can be said for you.

I am careful to research, and can back up all of what i say: which was NOT that "HBOS were within a day of going bust" and being as it's only two posts up i'm surprised to be missquoted.

I said that "HBOS were within a day of going runing out of cash".
Which they were. As was reported at the time by commentators in the FT, and other newspapers.

ianmr65

pjala wrote: »

If you say "rumour has it" it is a rumour no more, it is like saying rumour has it that Bill is cheating on his wife - you would not be able to look Bill's wife in the face again. But it could be a vicious piece of gossip. BoE is saying it is a vicious piece of gossip, and actionable as it is libellous as you say.

I think insider trading is different. Privillaged information that comes from inside a business, is that business's private property. And quite rightly using it to manipulate stock price is and should be illigeal.

But my point is not about traders, it's about ordinary people investing in what are now risky stocks, through spurious right issues that banks are being forced to make.

The UK and US Banks have been very gaurded and dis-ingenous and in some cases down right dishonest about the state of there balance sheets, liquidity and value of their asset bases. Bear stearns claimed they did not have liquidity problems, and so did NR. Both were lieing.

Many banks have needed public support. And some in the UK like HBOS. may or may not have had tax-payers money supplied in emergency, to make them liquid again. We are not allowed to know. As such payments are now 'secret'. The evidence that they did is pretty strong, if circumstancial.

1) Commetators said they did.
2) The denials were very strong, and very co-ordinated, very much as if there was something to hide.
3) The BoE had preciously announced that emrgency funding would take place in secret.
4) The shorting traders and hedge funds were international and the funding that HBOS needed would have come from the international credit market traders , whos analyists would be in a better position to know the state of their liquidity, than anyone.

The bottom line is that as a tax payer, and a customer, and a depositor, with many banks, i am outraged that my money is being used in this way. AND That i am not allowed to talk about it or know about it.

If any other businesss, institution or individuals had these problems they would go to the wall. And indeed many will as a result of the banks greed and stupidity.

If the BoE want to sue they are more than welcome. I would be glad to see the them reveal all the emergency funding lines they have opened and the extent to which the banks are being propped up. Then the true extent of the carnage going on in the banking industry would be revealed.

ad44downey

earlgrey wrote: »

IIRC It was you who were stating as a fact the ludicrous proposition that HBOS "were within a day of going bust" along with many of your other inaccuracies.

It was indeed close to going belly-up because the share price was falling so much it was only a short matter of time before people would have started withdrawing their savings en masse.And, as in the Northern Rock scenario, it would have then gone to the wall. And even if it were the case that this was caused by mere rumour the only reason it was widely believed was because it was obvious HBOS was in severe difficulty.

ad44downey

royeee wrote: »

There was an article in yesterday's Mail On Sunday which I think is a balanced one though it seem to conclude with 'sell' as HBOS relies more on savings and mortgages which in the current situation means potentially slow growth.

Exactly. The housing market is going into a downturn that's going to last at least several years and HBOS is the mortgage lender in the country. You don't have to be Warren Buffet to work out what's likely to happen to HBOS's share price in the future!

ianmr65

:mad: :mad:

HBOS are scraping the barrel.

I have halifax two credit card accounts, one is in credit for £13.50, with a 10k credit limit.

The other had an £8.81 balance, due to be paid on the 2nd may - with an £8k limit. The payment failed to arrive, due to on on line banking mix up.

They put the £8.81 account straight on delinquency, and slapped a £12 late payment on.

I went ballisitic considering the massive amounts that used to go through these accounts and the intrest i've paid, the fact i've never missed a payemnt, and the fact they owed me 13.50.

Anyone considering taking up this rights issue needs their head examining... being that they are so deperate for cash they are willing to behave like this!!.

ianmr65

... Hbos rights issue price - 275p - hbos share price today 352p : Hbos Chairman :eek: :eek:

From lombard in todays FT:

"BigBank’s rescue rights issue is teetering on the brink of “failure”. Failure is a relative term. BigBank will get its cash because its capital-raising is fully underwritten by two investment banks – Old Rope and Money for Nothing. But as BigBank’s share price drops inexorably towards the price at which the new shares are being offered, Old Rope and MfN are getting twitchy about the possibility that they will have to fulfil their obligations as insurers to the issue.
BigBank’s directors are also nervous. Their heads are on the block for having endorsed a strategy that exposed the bank to the worst of the credit crunch. It took hours for the board to decide to reverse earlier reassurances about BigBank’s capital position and press ahead with the original rights issue. As the fate of National Rock demonstrated, a bank’s reputation is fragile. Nobody knows how investors – or savers – will react if BigBank’s share price drops below the rights offer price. Unsurprisingly, Old Rope and MfN are happy to underwrite a deal at a lower price. You’re the chairman: what do you do?

(Any resemblance to banks alive or dead is entirely coincidental. No underwriters were harmed in the making of this scenario.)



Bradford & Bingley’s dilemma was distinct enough from the BigBank case to justify – if barely – the change in the terms of the rights issue. B&B’s chief executive was ill and had to step down. B&B’s trading position had worsened substantially since Citigroup and UBS agreed to underwrite the original issue. Rod Kent, B&B chairman, insists the legal position was never raised, but you can imagine the chaos if an argument had broken out over what constituted a “material change” in circumstances.
Were Citi and UBS let off the hook? Certainly the rights issue they are now underwriting is less risky than the first one, pitched at a lower price and alongside a big new investor. A tougher question is what this means for future rights issues. It is hard to be confident that BigBank’s board and underwriters would tough out a share price slump. Bank rights issues must be underwritten – to do otherwise would be to leave them prey to short-sellers – but it seems they are simply too important to be seen to “fail” in these volatile markets. For everybody – except perhaps Old Rope and Money for Nothing – that is unsatisfactory"

ianmr65

pjala wrote: »

Unless you can justify your statement, you are restarting those rumours again, and hence prone to action by the authorities - so do tell where those rumours are coming from.

FSA admits defeat after HBOS probe


From the telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/22/cnhbos122.xml


"The City regulator has conceded defeat in its efforts to find a 'smoking gun' as part of its probe into share dealings which saw the stock price of HBOS, Britain's biggest mortgage-lender, plunge by almost 20 per cent on one morning in March.
The Sunday Telegraph has learned that the Financial Services Authority (FSA) has wrapped up its investigation into the HBOS share price collapse. It has concluded that no action will be brought against any individuals despite a wide-ranging probe that included sifting through thousands of emails and telephone records as well as input from overseas regulators."


What a surprise!! :cool:

setmefree

ianmr65 wrote: »

FSA admits defeat after HBOS probe


From the telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/06/22/cnhbos122.xml


"The City regulator has conceded defeat in its efforts to find a 'smoking gun' as part of its probe into share dealings which saw the stock price of HBOS, Britain's biggest mortgage-lender, plunge by almost 20 per cent on one morning in March.
The Sunday Telegraph has learned that the Financial Services Authority (FSA) has wrapped up its investigation into the HBOS share price collapse. It has concluded that no action will be brought against any individuals despite a wide-ranging probe that included sifting through thousands of emails and telephone records as well as input from overseas regulators."


What a surprise!! :cool:

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Oh Dear oh dear, firstly not monitoring N.R. properly and now this.:eek:.. Be interesting to see the final outcome of the Bank charges.