My dog is agressive to other dogs.

LillyJ

Can anyone help me?

My dog is the most lovely dog in the world and has the best temperament with people that I have ever come across. He is a gentle giant and doesn't chew, or do anything naughty in the house. He is a rescue dog. He is very obedient with great recall, knows lots of commands etc.

Unfortunately he has one problem. He HATES other dogs. He goes mad when he even sees one in the distance in the park, and although we keep him on the lead, he strains to get to it and just goes berserk. He is a huge dog so I cannot walk him incase we see a dog when we are out so my OH has to do it. We put a halti on him at the vets advice as when he sees a dog he pulls like mad. It is soooo embarrasing as all the people in the park look really scared due to his size. Before we knew this we let him off the lead and he ran over to a small puppy and started chasing it round and round. The owner started crying (although her dog didn't get hurt and ours didn't growl or anything) and told us she was going to get our dog put down.

I can't even let him off muzzled because his posture makes other dogs agressive and I am worried that they would then attack him. He is just like Jekyl and Hyde.

We tried to take him to puppy classes but couldn't even get him out of the car because he could hear the other dogs inside.

It is my dream to see him run free but at the moment he is walked on a lead at night so that he doesn't see any dogs because people keep threatening us (even though he is ALWAYS on a lead, it is because of his size people are scared) to call the police and get him taken off us.

He has NEVER shown any agression to humans.

He is a rescue dog and is nearly 2.

I don't have much money at the moment as we are buying a house and so we can't really afford expensive behaviouralists or anything. I was wondering if anyone knew any ideas that could help me? It is really upsetting as he is so perfect inside the house.

Sorry for long post and thanks in advance.

t_r

1st thing speak to the rescue you got him from they should be able to advise and want to advise. They will probably suggest a behaviourist, which will be well worth the money.
What dog is he?

lv1109

I can totally symapthise with your situation LillyJ. I have 3 staffordshire bull terriers and they are also fantastic with humans but they have an aversion to other dogs. I get scared when I am out walking them because other people have their "friendly" dogs off the lead that sometimes come over to say hello but I wish they wouldn't because my dogs are not friendly and they try to bite the other dog. It does annoy me when people let their dogs off the lead when they aren't trained to do a recall because no matter how friendly they are they cannot guarantee the friendliness of other dogs they may meet. I now have to avoid parks as this tends to be where people let their dogs off and have to stick to roads because there doesn't tend to be dogs off the leads. I would also love to see my dogs run off the leads - saves me an hour pounding the streets every night and half hour in the morning! I will be watching this post with interest to see what other people may suggest. I keep dreaming of a field that is totally private that I could run my dogs in that someone would hire to me but so far, this has proved to be elusive!

LillyJ

He is (we think) a lab cross rottie cross great dane (according to the vet)

He is pretty much a cross of the good bits of all those three dogs in the house, but turns in to a monster when we are out. He weighs over 10 stone and so it is hard for me to hold him even with the halti if he decides he wants to go over to another dog.

The problem is how much are behaviourists?

He came from Birmingham Dogs Home and I don't think that you can ask them about stuff after you have had him for more than 3 weeks? Might be wrong though.

I also dislike the "friendly dog" thing. People just let their dog run up to mine without calling them back, and then tell me off when my dog goes mad. I am a responsible owner and don't deserve the name calling that I get. I am 23 as well so people think I am just some young chav with a hard dog that she cannot handle, but I have owned dogs since I was a child, and if 23 is old enough to have kids it is old enough to have a dog. I look after him very well in my opinon!

orlao

I think a behaviourist would really help, I believe they're in the region of £30 a session but you might only need a couple of visits to give you a few techniques that could help, included in the price is telephone advice....so it might not be as expensive as you think!

In the meantime is there any food or toy that your dog is mad for, that you could use to try to keep his attention on you while you're out? It sounds like he's either nervous or just totally unsocialised but that doesn't make him safer than an aggressive dog IYKWIM! As you have found out already people are very nervous of large dogs ( I have a rottie so I'm used to the abuse:eek: ) so they don't really get a fair chance. The only plus point for a muzzle is that if he is muzzled then most people will keep their dogs away from you, it's a kind of signal to back off....also with his size I don't think another dog would be able to get a hold of him for long enough to do any damage;)

The Dogs Home should be able to point you in the direction of a reputable behaviourist at least and maybe give some good advice, they know the dog at least?

The other thing is really really work on lead training in a quiet place ( with the special treats or toy)I have also seen dogs walking with both a halti and an anti pull harness but I don't know if that's a good idea or not? because IMO opinion you need to be confident you can hold him no matter what so that your nervousness isn't making him more nervous then he already is....hope that makes sense.

I don't think there is any quick solution to this problem and he may never be never "safe" off lead but I'm sure that you can at least walk him without major stress

HTH

O x

pboae

Behaviourists vary a lot in price, but I used to pay around £10 an hour for a 1 to 1 session, which was quite cheap. Some charge a flat rate, maybe £50-£100 for a few sessions. But the prices can go up to ten times that. Expensive doesn't always mean better in dog training though, and a couple of sessions with a good trainer or behaviourist is well worth the money. It's also worth travelling to see a good one, because if you are having personal sessions, you don't need to go all that frequently.

No good trainer or behaviourist will be willing to give you formal advice without meeting your dog. That is pretty much a blanket rule when it comes to aggression, for yours and their protection.

I know this might sound odd (and I am NOT a behaviourist) but from your description your dog doesn't actually sound aggressive, he sounds frustrated. It may be that he actually wants to play with other dogs or at least interact with them, but because he wasn't socialised as a pup (very common in rescue dogs) he has no idea how to do it. The main reason I am saying that is because it's incredibly rare for an adult dog, even an aggressive adult dog, to go after a pup. If they do, the pup is going to end up at best seriously hurt and most likely dead. His reaction to other dogs is in keeping with that too. But of course you have only given a very brief description, and you know much more about him than I do!

Anyway, my dog was dog aggressive when we first got him. He's a St. Bernard and just shy of 15 stone. We used a Kumfi Dogalter, it was the only thing I found that allowed me to keep hold of him when I really needed to. We approached his aggression with a combination of food bar, clicker training and gradual desensitisation.

When we first started we had to work him on the far side of a field next to the actual dog class. With a hedge and fence between us. Gradually I moved nearer and nearer to the hedge. Then, over to the gate (so he could see through it) and eventually into the field where the other dogs were, but in the very far corner, and just for a few minutes at first. Each session we got nearer to the other dogs, and in the end he was able to join a normal class! (Admittedly one where the other dogs have been very carefully selected).

I would never trust him off lead with another dog (his issues are mostly pain related because of health problems) but I can walk him within inches of another dog now and he'll barely glance at it.

So it can be done, but it's a slow process, and in all honesty not one I could have managed on my own. If you get it wrong you can make things a lot worse.

If he came from Birmingham Dogs Home (my dog came from Sunnyside orginally!) then I guess you are somewhere round that way. If so, you might be within distance of Marie Miller http://www.pawsnlearn.freeserve.co.uk/adult.htm

She is absolutely amazing (I've travelled from Sheffield to see, she is well worth it). I know she is confident with potentially aggressive large dogs (and I had trouble finding trainers who were willing to work with my dog), and she has lots of experience with under socialised rescue dogs too.

She does some alternative method stuff (e.g. T-Touch) which I'm a bit unsure about, but I must admit my dog does seem to respond to it, and the groundwork helped him more than I could have imagined. But don't be put off if that side of things seems a bit to hippie-like for you, she does straightforward training and behavioural advice as well. I don't know what her fees are off hand, but she's pretty reasonable.

Good luck with him!

LillyJ

Wow thanks for the advice everyone.

Myself and the vet also think he has frustration. He is a very playful dog and the way he was with the puppy (a 5 month old springer) was exactly how he plays with my boyfriend when they are messing about. (like fake boxing) He never bit the puppy at all, and if he had wanted to he could have really hurt her, but didn't.
My theory is that because his previous owner died that they were old and he never went outside. I think that because they did an amazing job with him in terms of socialisation with people. My vet says he is the only dog they have that is actually pleased to see him! He doesn't even mind jabs cos he knows the vet will give him a cuddle! All "dog people" that we meet (when they haven't got their dogs with them obviously!) love him and really cooo over him cos he is so cute and soppy, but people who are wary of dogs just freak out when they see how big he is.

It is just like a switch goes on in his head when he sees another dog. My boyfriend is much more confident than me and is a 15 stone police officer so he can hold on to him easily. But the dog actually weighs more than me!

I am in the birmingham area, yes, so I will look at that lady's website. I actually applied for dog borstal and had a telephone interview with them. I am waiting to hear, and although I don't agree with everything they do I am just desparate.

He does like sausages but even those cannot keep his attention when there is a dog around. The main thing he is obsessed with though is my partner. He just worships him and looks at him all the time, staring at the door for about an hour after he leaves for work. But even him jumping around like a madman and waving his favourite tuggy rope doesn't distract him when a dog is about!

I would just like to be able to walk him in the park, even on the lead. We say Sunday morning is his witching hour as he can't even get out of the car at the park as there are so many dogs. I think he wants to play with them and feels annoyed that he can't. He just strains and strains at the lead. He was opposite an agressive rottie (to both humans and dogs) at the dogs home so maybe that didn't help)

My boyfriend reckons he doesn't like white dogs, if that means anything to anyone!?

I also think there may be an element of trying to protect my partner in it. He is his whole world and after losing one owner he must be terrified to lose another.

Thanks again for your replies!

Fleago

What is he actually doing though, Lilly, 'cos I had thoughts like pboae in that he sounds more frustrated than aggressive, especially when you described his interaction with the puppy. Is he growling, snarling or barking aggressively when he sees other dogs, or is he simply jumping about squeeling and barking excitedly (which is different to aggressive or fearful barking)?

Pboae has given you excellent advice though, and I hope you manage to get something worked out for him. I've got very large dogs too, (who could take me off my feet if they so chose ), so I understand how you feel about things when you meet people who are intimidated by the very size of your boy.

Good luck.

LillyJ

Fleago wrote: »

What is he actually doing though, Lilly, 'cos I had thoughts like pboae in that he sounds more frustrated than aggressive, especially when you described his interaction with the puppy. Is he growling, snarling or barking aggressively when he sees other dogs, or is he simply jumping about squeeling and barking excitedly (which is different to aggressive or fearful barking)?

Pboae has given you excellent advice though, and I hope you manage to get something worked out for him. I've got very large dogs too, (who could take me off my feet if they so chose ), so I understand how you feel about things when you meet people who are intimidated by the very size of your boy.

Good luck.

Well that's just it. He give mixed messages. He never, ever barks normally, not even when the postman comes, etc etc. I though at first he didn't have a voice. So when he does see another dog he just sort of barks twice, as he isn't a vocal dog.

He doesn't growl, however he does put his tail high in the air and his hair goes all on end. He also stands up very tall and squares up to the dog, which seems agressive to me. Also once a staffy came up to him who was off the lead. He looked pretty friendly until my dog stood up tall, then this staff just went for him. Luckily my partner had the lead and the staffy's owner was really good, grabbing him and putting him on the lead.

He has had one other experience with dogs which was my partner's relative dog (a small cavalier). He just looked at her and then decided to pounce on her, pinning her down. He didn't bite her at all, and no growling, but when we pulled him away the poor cav was shaking like a leaf.

Maybe he hasn't learnt how to play nicely, which is a shame as he never even gets rough when he is excited playing with us. He has excellent bite inhibition, and even if we play madly with him he never closes his jaw on our skin, just licks us. Whereas most dogs I know sometimes grab with their teeth or nip if they are over excited (playing like they would with a puppy).

My worst nightmare is someone reporting us, as I read that if a person is fearful of your dog then you can be in breach of the dangerous dog's act? Is this true even if he is on the lead?

yummymsmummy

Lilly - do you have an RSPCA centre nearby, or a collage that specialises in animal courses?

I'm a greyhound owner, and many greys due to the nature of their career cannot be let off the lead in public places - but as you say, its fantastic to see them run free. Many owners use RSPCA excersise paddocks (with a prior arrangement obviously, and for a small donation each time) or the animal college equivilent. It may be worth ringing round a few places - you never know, you may find somewhere where he can be let off; and in turn (in time) this may improve his behaviour as he releases some of that frustration!

Good Luck!

LillyJ

That is funny you should say that, there is an RSPCA centre within walking distance. That sounds great I will call them tomorrow. I would also be pleased to be contributing towards such a good charity as well.
We currently take him to a basketball court which is fenced in but it has a bit of fence missing and I have to stand guard there in case another dog comes! But he loves it and we practise recall (which he is great at!) but a grassy area would be perfect. We live in the middle of Birmingham so such areas are hard to comeby!