Usa and criminal records

M4RKM

but surely that the embassy are just creating more work for themselves by saying that.. because the rules (taken from the US Department of State Website) clearly states the following

When does a national of a VWP country need to apply for a visa instead of using the VWP?

Nationals of VWP countries must meet the conditions noted in the section above (Which travelers may use the Visa Waiver Program to enter the United States?) in order to seek admission to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program. Travelers who do not meet these conditions must apply for a visa. In particular, a visa must be requested if the traveler:

Wants to remain in the United States for longer than 90 days, or envisions that they may wish to change their status (from tourism to student, etc.) once in the United States;
Wants to work or study in the United States, wants to come to the United States for other purposes not allowed on a visitor visa, or intends to immigrate to the United States;
Does not have a machine-readable passport (MRP) issued or renewed/extended before 10/26/05, or is unable to meet other requirements outlined above for passports issued on or after October 26, 2005 or October 26, 2006.
Intends to travel by private aircraft or other non-signatory air or sea carriers to the United States;
Has been refused a visa or admission to the United States before, or did not comply with the conditions of previous VWP admissions (90 days or less stay for tourism or business, etc.); or
Has a criminal record or other condition making them ineligible for a visa (see Classes of Aliens Ineligible for Visas ).

so there, they are wanting an actual criminial record before you have to have a visa... ?!

dzug

The US London Embassy are being super-cautious. Whether you need a visa or not depends on the TYPE of crime you were arrested for or convicted of. They do not trust the British public to decide whether the type of crime they were involved in needs a visa or not. So they have a blanket 'apply for a visa and let us decide ' policy. Embassies in (many) other countries do not have this policy - I don't know why we are singled out.

So there are 3 possibilities:

you apply for the visa, they decide it was not moral turpitude, etc, you automatically get your visa. However if this is the case you were eligible for a visa waiver anyway so have wasted your $100 fee.

you apply for the visa, they decide it was moral turpitude, refuse you the visa. That is the strict application of US law. You've lost your fee - it's for applying, not for the visa itself.

you apply for the visa, they decide it was moral turpitude, but that there are mitigating circumstances - eg committed as a juvenile, or a long while ago. Possibly just being arrested falls in this category. You get your visa, sometimes after a long delay (they have to refer borderline cases home)

I suspect that many of those applying for visas are doing so unnecessarily. Whether the Embassy are doing it as a money spinning exercise or just out of paranoia I've no idea.

dsab

I honestly don't think that they have a way of getting data from most nations to effectively bar convicted people of entering the US. They will only have data for high profile cases, where convictions made the national news.

I can hardly see the UK or Germany or any other nation with a good Data Protection Law giving the US access to their crime databases. Especially as in a lot of western countries you are rehabilitated after a certain amount of time without reoffending, and then being eligible to declare yourself as a a person with no previous convictions.

I am aware that for example Germany only gives data to the US for Trial and permanent Immigration issues, and then only on a one by one request by the US authorities. And they will only give Informations that have not yet expired (i.e. offender is not yet rehbilitated). The US Immigration system does not have access to any of the German databases for every person that enters the country.

And I believe this will be the same for most other countries. I believ this is all a bit of panic making by the US in the hope that people declare their previous convictions voluntarily.

thatboydean

little_miss_messiah wrote: »

I get this question a lot working in a police station, and no one can seem to tell me where the US get their info from - under the rehabilition of offenders act most convictions expire after a set time - if you got a Data Protection form (generally for employment/emigration reasons) from you local POlice Station they would not show up so lord knows where they get it from.

I have asked and asked and it is if you have ever been arrested - so if you have ever had a scornful ex/spiteful neighbour or mistaken identity resulting in your arrest it will show. However my OH in his youth was arrested for drink driving (21 years ago) - we only found out about this 2 weeks before due to fly and 'winged it' and everything had been paid for etc and were never picked up couldn;t guarantee this wan;t a major error on the US behalf tho

The VWP is a complete lengthy and expensive pain but once in the US your friend could be turned straight back round and kicked out - I wouldn't risk it

has anyone else winged it to the usa

lilac_lady

Perhaps Icarus, but remember what happened to him...............!

I would get your friend to declare his position as it'llruin your holiday if it caught up with him in the US.

Smiley_Mum

Information that you should check out before applying for a Visa.

http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=cb90c19a50729fb47fb0686648558dbe

Section 212 in particular. Crimes of moral turpitude, if it is your one and only offence, it appears you are eligible for the VWP so long as you weren't imprisoned for more than a year etc. That's the way I read it anyway.

Here also...

http://forum.no2id.net/viewtopic.php?t=6118

Tojo_Ralph

thatboydean wrote: »

has anyone else winged it to the usa

Yes..... any number of times, and I know many others who have done likewise.

That said however, whilst all have fallen foul of the law at some point in their lives, non were or are exactly master criminals or a threat to the fabric of modern day society.

headpin

dsab wrote: »

I honestly don't think that they have a way of getting data from most nations to effectively bar convicted people of entering the US. They will only have data for high profile cases, where convictions made the national news.

I can hardly see the UK or Germany or any other nation with a good Data Protection Law giving the US access to their crime databases. Especially as in a lot of western countries you are rehabilitated after a certain amount of time without reoffending, and then being eligible to declare yourself as a a person with no previous convictions.

I am aware that for example Germany only gives data to the US for Trial and permanent Immigration issues, and then only on a one by one request by the US authorities. And they will only give Informations that have not yet expired (i.e. offender is not yet rehbilitated). The US Immigration system does not have access to any of the German databases for every person that enters the country.

And I believe this will be the same for most other countries. I believ this is all a bit of panic making by the US in the hope that people declare their previous convictions voluntarily.

I agree that as far as I am aware there is no exchange of data between the UK and USA regarding convictions and arrests. In fact I believe currently it would be unlawful for the UK Authorities to provide the US with this info. (Of course it does go on for Terrorism suspects and the like, but not for your normal run of the mill crimbo/offender). So, basically, the US depend upon you shopping yourself either by confessing or through profilling when you turn up at their immigration desk sweating like a pig and looky scared and shifty. Otherwise they haven't a clue.

With regards to the Rehabilitation of Offenders, convictions are not always spent after a certain time. The conviction will always remain on file but you do not have to declare it and it will not be revealed for certain types of enquiry by authorised enquirers. However, there are specific instances where it will be with you for life and must always be declared and is never spent. That is if you want to work in a school. or work with chidren or with other vulnerable people and for some jobs in the health profession. Any enquiry by one of these employers will always show up any convictions. Of course, the system is not always 100% and if a conviction was more than say 20 years ago the liklihood is it will not have got transferred on to the electronic system we now have, especially if it was for a one off and you are not an habitual offender.

If it were me I'd just go through on the VWP and look like I'm just their to enjoy my stay and holiday. Unfortuantely if your name is Abdul and you are a Muslim in traditional dress they may enquire a bit more closely and take a keener interest.

princesslizzie

Does anyone know if this applies if you were charged under 18 (OH?)?

oshoshitzu

I know quite a number of people who have been to the USA and never disclosed their criminal records