Help needed with Allied International Credit regarding bank charges

tigtig

Hi Everyone

I need some help with a problem i have with AIC (Allied International Credit) debt collecting agency.

Here's the story

I am currently trying to claim back bank charges from natwest, the charges come to £4600, but the total debt comes to £7000.

recently i have been called by AIC demanding i pay the full £7000 to them, i told them the account is in despute but they didnt really care about that.

So i sent them this nice letter recorded delivery

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I am writing to you following a telephone conversation on the 22/02/2008 regarding the outstanding amount of £7000. I informed your operator that the amount owing on this account is now in dispute due to the recent events that have come to light with bank charges. The amount outstanding is made up of unlawful charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.



I believe that these charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that the charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79.along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963 It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that these charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss.



Please be aware that this just does not relate to credit card companies but to any organisation that levies disproportionately high charges for late payment, overdrawn or returned payments.



It concerns me that after informing your operator that the whole amount is in dispute you are refusing to freeze any action or pass this account back to your client National Westminster Bank.



I will inform you now that the only form of communication I want from you must be done in writing and I will reply in writing. If you fail to adhere to my request then I will take it as an act of defiance and pursue this matter under the Administration of Justice Act 1970. I must make you aware that I believe you are already in breach of The Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance in which it states:



PUTTING PRESSURE ON DEBTORS OR THIRD PARTIES IS CONSIDERED TO BE OPPRESSIVE



This includes: Ignoring disputes about whether you owe the money, refusing to freeze action if you dispute the debt. It is also against OFT regulations for a debt collector to attempt to collect anything in dispute so they must refer the debt back to the original creditor or any further action halted.

Just for your information I will not be making any payments to yourself until after the dispute is resolved.



I hope to receive your full co-operation in this matter and I look forward to reading your written reply.

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Well they complety ignored this and sent me another letter yesterday saying they are going to take me to court if i dont pay up, what should i do?

Any help or advice would be great

GeorgeUK

I would suggest requesting a copy of the CCA from them. This way if they cannot produce a copy, the debt is not enforcable - and of course you then get to keep any money that you successfully claim back from natwest instead of putting towards paying the debt.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=578486

tigtig

Thank you George i will do that

tigtig

Sorry i have another question

So i just get this right do i give them 12 working days to send me my CCA?
What happens if they dont send me a CCA within that time?

Sorry for the silly questions

itsnever2lateisit?

They have 12 working days to respond +2 for posting. Thereafter they cannot pursue without a court order, and will have comitted a civil offence. If after a further 30 days they have still not conformed then they will have committed a criminal offence. They may well continue to write in the same vein, so you must be strong and whatever you do dont ring them

Ultimately you will be able to report them to Trading Standars and the OFT

GeorgeUK

Send the letter with £1 postal order requesting CCA by recorded delivery
Wait 12+2 working days (2 days for postage)

If they are unable to produce the document within this time, the agreement is unenforcable without a court order (as they have not proved the debt is yours). This means that you are no longer obliged to make payments to them and if you were, could cease making payments.

Then you would send the 2nd letter

This letter "reminds" them that they have a legal obligation to supply the document and if they fail to do so within 30 days are committing a criminal offence.

After this, a letter to Trading Standards is in order to inform them that this company has committed an offence.

When you are sending the first letter requesting a copy of the CCA, i would refer them to your original letter that you are currently taking action against the original creditor. They would need to contact Natwest for a copy of the CCA so hopefully will pass this back to their client at that time.

I've never tried to get back bank charges so not really sure of the process or timeframe that this takes. Are you using the templates and data from this site to do that? The reason i ask is because there is a chance that they will be able to produce a copy of the CCA. If this happens, i'm not sure what other delaying tactics you could use to get them to wait until the charges situation has been dealt with.

If this happens, you could probably arrange a payment plan with them, but as the account is in dispute i'm not sure if you should wait until they try to actually take court action. This is going out of my knowledge area here - hopefully others will be able to comment on some of the above. Not sure what others have done when trying to claim back charges and the debt has been passed on. May be worth asking that on the charges board. Did you stop all payments to Natwest when trying to reclaim?

~Beanie~

Surely you would still owe them £2400, even if you did get your charges refunded (which is unlikely anytime soon seeing as the outcome of the test case has yet to be decided).

GeorgeUK

Thanks Beanie - i missed the part about it being bank charges rather than credit card charges. The letter quoted mentioned credit card companies and i assumed it was CC charges that were being reclaimed.

Can you tell us what the charges relate to? If the 7k debt is for an overdraft then the CCA request may not be much use as most overdrafts are given without a credit agreement.

tigtig

Hi

Sorry i should have made it a bit more clear, this amount relates to a bank account i had with natwest. Can i still send the letter to the DCA or is this not an option now.

Thanks everyone for you help

GeorgeUK

Need a little help on this one.

Done some digging and while the CCA74 does cover overdrafts, you can't make it unenforcable in the same way as a CC debt or other Credit Agreements.

You may be able to request a SAR (Subject Access Request) from Natwest though. If they did not provide the letter stating the credit limit and APR interest, then they have not shown that you have agreed to the interest charges and may be able to claim them back.

There are ways however in which an overdraft may become a consumer credit agreement (getting very confused now) but there still wouldn't be a signed agreement (i think) so not much use to you.


If it was a CC then definately send the CCA request.

If the debt is due to an overdraft, a CCA may not be helpful. You may get a letter back stating that one is not required, or they could just hand it back to their client to deal with - which is what you want but this would be a longshot. If you were dealing directly with the company rather than a DCA then i think this would be a straight "forget about it" idea.

Not too sure what to suggest.
You could send the CCA request - just incase. (They may assume CC as i did).
Then get a SAR from Natwest. Don't restrict it to a certain account - you want everything. If they don't send the limit and interest confirmation letter for the overdraft, you may be able to take this forward.

BUT

As the debt was in dispute with Natwest, The OFT guidelines clearly state under (s2.6 h) that these are unfair business practices. So it may be best to write to AIC and Natwest that they are in brach of the OFT guidelines and will be reporting them to OFT and TS.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf

Anyone else think this is the best solution?