PPI Reclaiming discussion Part II

marshallka

Just been on the phone to Freedom Finance and spoke to the complaints person about my previous letter and was told by him that they are trying to locate the documents for my loan but as yet nothing found. He stated that as the loan was taken out 8 years ago they have no need to keep anything. He said "we were not the lender". Is he right in this. I also stated that i was misrepresented again by this company for telling me that my loan was taken out by this Bespoke Finance and that it was formerly called Karacus. I told him that i took the loan out with Low cost loans limited and at that time Freedom FInance were not even limited and were not even called Freedom Finance. They were called Wilmslow Financial Services until 2001. I then quoted that Low Cost Loans were still an active business and gave him all the information from companies house that i had on them. It was then that he said to me "i was told it was a Bespoke arrangement". He said he would look into this and get back to me. (look into this my a**e - more like concoct another story with another name). I have all the info on Freedom FInance and the name changes and the dates etc but nothing at all on Wilmslow Financial Services except that they became Freedom Finance after i took my loan. At the time neither were involved with Bespoke Finance or Karacus LImited.

bathgatebuyer

marshallka wrote: »

There was over-reliance on information sent through the post, which again breaches CCA 1974 and is therefore negligent in line with 1967 Misrepresentation Act. Under CC P18 claimant requests full documentary evidence of absolute compliance with best practise in sale of PPI and detailed record of training undertaken by Sales Reps.

Hi - can I ask 2 things (sorry to be a pain!), but which part of the CCA referes to over-reliance on postal info, and also what does CC P18 refer to?

I'm awaiting a copy of the defence that the Halifax recently sent to the Court in respect of my own claim and this looks like good info to counter them with!

sarahc5388

mon1o wrote: »

Sarah what do i ask for in the SAR? I have edited my above post with the details. I already have copies of the ppi agreement which we signed.

Many thanks
Monica

Heres' what I put:

Re: Account number: XXXXXXXXX

In the first part under the Data Protection Act 1998:

Under the Data Protection Act 1984 and 1998, and including the right of subject access under these acts, please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to the above accounts held with you since they were opened.

Additionally where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you.

If you are unable to supply data relating to manual intervention because there has been no such manual intervention then please be kind as to confirm this in your response to this request.

For the avoidance of any and all doubt, I reiterate:

I hereby request that you supply me with any and all historical data in your possession which, in any way appertains to me, including (but not exhaustively) a copy of the original signed executed agreement; statements of account; duplicate statements and/or print outs of all account transactions; all internal and external correspondence sent or received by you including memo’s, logs, notes, screen prints and transcripts; notes of manual interventions such as telephone attendants' notes, copies of stored telephone conversations, internal and external emails; any other information held on any/all types of media in any relevant filing system (microfiche included).

If you have disclosed any information to a third party (with or without my express permission), will you please include details of this in your reply, along with notes of any legal action passed or pending (to include a true copy of default notices, court orders and the like).

Where any information that you provide includes any charges, for example returned payments, late payment fees, and so forth, would you please advise your breakdown of actual costs (liquidated damages) incurred for each charge, and the Term or Condition on which you rely upon to claim such a charge.

I also require that you forward, within the above mentioned time scale, a true copy of the Terms and Conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10.00 to access ALL data held by yourselves about myself. You should be fully aware of your statutory obligations under the Data Protection Act and that any failure to comply with this request will involve a complaint to the ICO as well as potential legal action.

You have 40 calendar days in which to comply with this request.

This communication has been sent Recorded Delivery so I can ensure compliance on these issues within the legislative timeframes.



Request for Further Information

I also request the following information:

Procedures in place at the time of sale to ensure customers did not buy policies on which they could not claim or which provided only very limited cover;

The Controls and Systems in place at the time of sale to stop staff giving advice or providing information that amounted to giving advice;
Systems in place at the time of sale to assess suitability adequately (ie what advice could and could not be given, how did you assess a customers suitability for specific products);

What Controls were in place at the time of sale to assess the quality and timeliness of product and price disclosure;

Provide details as to the level and structure of inducements and targets for sales staff in place at the time of sale;

What training was provided to the Salesperson involved with the sale of the Insurances and how was the competence of the specific sales staff assessed (please provide copies of actual training records and competency assessments;

What Compliance Monitoring was in place to ensure compliance with good practice; and

Copy of any Internal or External Audit reports into the Sale of Insurances within the company issued since the sale of the insurances took place.


Yours Faithfully

I added all this at the end of my letter of complain - you should be able to cut and paste it straight in

sarahc5388

marshallka wrote: »

sarah, its only 40 days to comply with the SAR i think.:D

You are correct! 40 CALENDAR days

cmac

HI everyone
i`m hoping someone can help me with barclays. We had 3 loans with them and i`m having trouble even getting a response.
the first is the easiest so i`ll start with that.

the start date of the loan was 21/01/00
I have the policy certificate but thats all
I sent my first letter to Ireland the address on the certificate - couldnt help me, but gave me a address in leicester.
Wrote again on 24th feb 08 requesting data (nothing no response at all)
Third letter using Lainis (thanks again) SAR and enclosed the £10 fee on 27th May 08 still not a dicky bird I also sent it by regester post.
What do I do now

Thanks in advance
Cmac

marshallka

marluc wrote: »

Hi. I think you should take your complaint to FO.
My claim is against Freedom Finance. I submitted all my documentation on Friday to the court and to the solicitors of Freedom Finance.
Don't know if this is any help, but I've included the following:
There was an over reliance on information sent through the post by FF. They are negligent in line with the Misrepresentation Act 1967 s2(1) as they breached Consumer Credit Act 1974. "A clause in the contract which states that a signature indicates full acceptance is not valid where it would be unlikely that the customer would have the skill and inclination to go through the fine detail". See case Howard Maine v A Ogden 1975.
Hope this is of some use to you.
But definately go for it.

I used this from a post by Marluc who won her claim and it was settled out of court and the post is above.

marshallka

bathgatebuyer wrote: »

marshallka wrote: »

There was over-reliance on information sent through the post, which again breaches CCA 1974 and is therefore negligent in line with 1967 Misrepresentation Act. Under CC P18 claimant requests full documentary evidence of absolute compliance with best practise in sale of PPI and detailed record of training undertaken by Sales Reps.

Hi - can I ask 2 things (sorry to be a pain!), but which part of the CCA referes to over-reliance on postal info, and also what does CC P18 refer to?

I'm awaiting a copy of the defence that the Halifax recently sent to the Court in respect of my own claim and this looks like good info to counter them with!

see my post above, thats where i got it from

Here is another quote from a letter on the consumer action forum

There was over-reliance on information sent through the post, which again breaches CCA 1974 and is therefore negligent in line with 1967 Misrepresentation Act.

CRP18 relates to a request

http://www.consumerwiki.co.uk/index.php/CPR_18_Request_Reponse

I think thats only if the courts are involved.


Good luck

bathgatebuyer

Thanks - I'll print out a copy of the CCAct today and try and ascertain which section advises on the over-reliance of info. I suspect that this is exactly what they'll come back with ('we sent t & c, you had the chance to read them................'). I know that it is often said that the banks should not over-rely on printed terms and conditions sent in the post, although I'm trying hard to find the piece of legislation or guidance which specifically states this. Would welcome any guidance or direction here.

ICOBS on the FSA website gives some contradictory (I feel) guidance on the sale of PPI cover which appears to suggest that info should be supplied before an agreement for insurance concluded, while another rule suggests that this info could be sent after the point of sale.

I may contact them direct to clarify that point.

marshallka

bathgatebuyer wrote: »

Thanks - I'll print out a copy of the CCAct today and try and ascertain which section advises on the over-reliance of info. I suspect that this is exactly what they'll come back with ('we sent t & c, you had the chance to read them................'). I know that it is often said that the banks should not over-rely on printed terms and conditions sent in the post, although I'm trying hard to find the piece of legislation or guidance which specifically states this. Would welcome any guidance or direction here.

ICOBS on the FSA website gives some contradictory (I feel) guidance on the sale of PPI cover which appears to suggest that info should be supplied before an agreement for insurance concluded, while another rule suggests that this info could be sent after the point of sale.

I may contact them direct to clarify that point.

This below is a copy of a letter from here and a response from tiggrae who is helping people with their ppi claims in the courts.
It may help you


Originally Posted by marluc

Hi Tiggrae.
Thanks for replying. Just tried to post back before, but for some reason didn’t work. Anyway here goes...
Claimant contends price of PPI far exceeds what is “reasonable” as required by S.15 of Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. Policy mis-sold – all amounts and boxes were pre-checked there was a conflict of interest as £1500 was paid to the broker. This is in breach of CCCA 1974, where a company must be fit to be involved in activities the licence covers.
The PPI was unfit for purpose and unfair. Freedom Finance were licenced under Section 20 of CCA 1974 and is in breach of Consumer Protection Law – by unfair contract terms – PPI only applied to claimant – loan was in joint names. I would not have needed to use the PPI as my job would have covered me. PPI only applied to 5 years rather than full term. This is also in breach of Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999, where a term is unfair if “contrary to the requirement of good faith if it causes a significant inbalance in parties rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of consumers”.
There was over-reliance on information sent through the post, which again breaches CCA 1974 and is therefore negligent in line with 1967 Misrepresentation Act. Under CC P18 claimant requests full documentary evidence of absolute compliance with best practise in sale of PPI and detailed record of training undertaken by Sales Reps.
Phew.! Hope it was OK. Anyway, if you want me to send you Freedom Finance’s Defence, then let me know.
I don’t know how to fill in the Allocation Questionnaire. Any advice on that? It would be much appreciated. Thanks.
hi the allocation questionaire is easy - just remember it's the court asking you where you want the case to be held and what Court track you want your case to go down - Small Claims, Multi or Fast Track - always go for the Small Claims Court even if it's over £5000. You won't be calling any expert witnesses so just leave that blank.

Also on your particulars, If I were you I'd pull the bit out about CPR 18 and send it to their solictors by serving it on them - I'd also request the following information from them

All procedures in place at the time of the Sale of the Policy to ensure they conform to good practice in the sale of PPI and your client is not guilty of the following poor practices as identified by the FSA:
· Controls in place to prevent the risk of inappropriate sales: around half of the firms failed to take reasonable steps to ensure that customers did not buy policies on which they could not claim or which provided only very limited cover;
· Controls in place for non-advised sales: about half of the firms selling on a non-advised basis did not have adequate systems to stop their staff giving advice or were providing information that amounted to giving advice;
· The systems in place to assess customer suitability for ppi product;
· There was an over-reliance on product documentation given to the customer at the expense of explaining the policy to the customer orally: most firms selling by telephone did not give sufficient information on exclusions;
· Procedures in respect to the quality and timeliness of product and price disclosure;
· The level and structure of inducements and Sales staff targets; and
· Training of sales staff, particularly the person who sold me the policy;
· Management Information regarding compliance monitoring. Any Internal Audit reports into the sale of PPI.

cmac

Hello,
Again asking for help with Barclays.
I`ll apologise first for this being somewhat long winded.
We took a loan out on 20th january 2005, with PPI
We`re both self employed
Cash loan Premium loan
Amount of loan 5,100 1,201.80
charge for credit 2.035.80 479.40
monthly repayments 118.93 28.02 = 146.95
no of payments 60 60


Insurance Premium at a rate of 5%
I dont really know what I actually paid is it £1681.20 ?

Now for the story
Firstly it has been rejected on the basics that my OH made a successful claim on 2nd April 2007 . They paid 1 months but he was off work for nearly 5 months (broken leg) I dont understand this.

We were finanically suffering at this time ,no sick pay for the self employed,
and to cut a long story short missed a few payments on a few things.Getting charges left right and centre.
So we went to the bank to ask for some help or guidence. I really wish I hadnt bothered.

She told us the best thing to do was consolidate ok in theory and put everything into our morgage reserve fund. I ask what was the intrest on this only to be told " Not to worry about it just pay it back as soon as you can"
We now pay £70 a month of which £63 is interest!!!
When i discovered how much it was costing us I tried ringing her on the number she gave us never to get a reply about 20 phone calls. I eventually gave up.

Thanks to this site and all the good people on it I`ve reclaimed quite a bit but Barclays is eluding me.

Sorry for diverting
the loan was closed on the 18th June 2007 and £3612.60 transfered to morgage reserve and an insurance refund of £325.72 interest charged £15.32.

I have also sent a SAR (thanks to Laini again) to them + the £10 fee as I suspect we havent been treated fairly dated 27th May 2008.

Any help at all will be very gratually received
cmac