Bangernomics: Is this the cheapest possible motoring?

daver74

I've been doing 'bangernomics' since 1998 and it's worked out much cheaper for me. I purchase my cars at auction (you MUST have someone who knows cars with you) and aim to spend a mimimum amount on maintenance. At the moment I'm driving a 1995 Audi A4 bought for £800 last July. I've spent £54 on various bits in a year and it's just passed it's MOT with no problems. 175K with full service history is high miles but it's very reliable.

The most crucial money saving aspect though is doing all maintenance myself - this saves an absolute fortune. Use a Haynes manual once and you've probably saved the £15 it cost you in not taking it to the garage.

My last motor (a Renault clio) cost £900 at auction and I sold it for over £500 after 3 years. I only replaced the water pump and 2 tyres. It had to go as the forthcoming repairs would not have been economically viable.

The point about buying bangers is that the depreciation has already largely happened. It's also about attitude. A car to me is A to B and nothing else - I don't like the darn thing, I just have to have one and the cheaper the better. The bloke stuck in traffic in a Porsche always makes me laugh when I'm sat behind him. What is the point?

starkj

I noticed in one of the early post someone buying a used tyre for £20 from a scrapyard. You won't know the history of the tyre.

Spend an extra few quid on a new one, if your tyres don't work then the steering and brakes don't.

jdavtz

Ginger_Nuts wrote: »

Suppose your figures would be even more entertaining if you include cost of finance and depreciation. And reports are already appearing of transmission oil leaks, Water leaks into load area via extractor vent. Have also been water leaks into load area and rear via misfitted rear door and hatch seals or rear light seals, failing timing belt tensioners, which is a roller bearing device like the idler pulley, but with a reddish rubber/nylon damper. Gates cambelt kits include this part. Wise also to replace waterpump which it driven by the timing belt. Also seeing as the diesel does 68 mpg in controlled circumstances, your figures for working out how many miles to the gallon you are doing are way way outta belief. How many litres does your car take to fill to the neck, how many miles do you do and then refill to the neck again, this is really the only way you will get a true reading. :rotfl:

Okay, I'm not (and I never was) saying an Aygo is definitely going to work out cheaper than several bangers, just that it's worth doing your own calculations as mpg makes a huge difference with current high fuel costs.

I'd not heard of those (presumably Aygo) faults, other than water leaking into load area (which hasn't happened to me), but are you saying an Aygo is more likely to have a fault than a random banger? If they're equally likely, then it's irrelevant.

Of course if you need to take finance to purchase the car that makes a big difference to the calculation.

Depreciation again doesn't matter in my calculation as I'm looking at total expenditure over say three years. If Aygo is still worth something at the end of the three years, that's a bonus!

Here are my fuel figures. I always fill up to the first automatic click off of the pump (95 RON Unleaded), almost always at the same petrol station.

Miles since fill    Litres    mpg=miles/(L*0.22)
409                 28.41     65.4
471                 32.60     65.7
412                 30.86     60.7
446                 30.38     66.7
428                 27.95     69.6
415                 29.35     64.3
470                 29.69     72.0
257                 18.03     64.8
466                 31.43     67.4
358                 25.91     62.8

Jimbob71_2

I bought an old Ford Granada 11 years ago, i gave up driving it recently, not because it expired, i just got bored with it!!! it was showing no signs of letting up, it now has 150k+ miles on the clock, and only ever failed to get me home once! most expensive repair was £250 for a gearbox seal 4 years ago (the one time it failed to get me home), other than that just oil changes, light bulbs and tyres!

I now drive old American cars why? parts are in most cases less than 1/2 price of European and Japanese cars (even ordered online direct from the USA), mechanically (in most cases) they are very simple and easy to repair, i can get any part i need without visiting a main dealer, insurance is cheaper than European and Japanese cars, the road tax is the same. It is only the MPG that is more costly, but i do not make unesseary trips and i have learned how to drive efficiently. And they are supremely comfortable.

SunnySusie

Think our 1st car is 11 years old by now. Was around £6k new iirc (actually it was used for test drives and had a scratch so we got a discount).

But anyway, that works out as £500 a year. Then service and MOT is about £200? I dont pay much attention but its normally about £100 each time. We had to change the tires and the thingmy watsit before that.

But all in all, im not sure we are too far over that £600 a year in the original post but with the reassurance that we know it's been well looked after and its never broken down. Touch wood! And without the hassle of having to go buy x number of cars every year. Buying the first one was stressful enough!

And, by what Ive read above, maybe we can get plenty more years out of it at that level of running cost. I'll post back here when it dies (I won't).

So isnt an alternative to buy a cheap car new, and look after it. At the end of the day, if you believe in efficient market theory, then the 2nd hand value of a car should reflect its usefulness. If £200 cars were really that great everyone would want them. And then guess what - they'd cost more than £200!

Of course there is a premium for getting a new car, but the trick there is to get something cheap from the start (ie a mass consumer car and not a "luxury" brand) and possibly something with a nice discount - we got a lot off for a little scratch! Try buying at the end of the year when the manager is trying to reach his sales targets! etc.

Ginger_Nuts_2

starkj wrote: »

I noticed in one of the early post someone buying a used tyre for £20 from a scrapyard. You won't know the history of the tyre.

Spend an extra few quid on a new one, if your tyres don't work then the steering and brakes don't.

Right so in your case, every time you buy a used car you immediately renew all the tyres as you dont know the history of the tyres, nope no chance:rotfl:

Ginger_Nuts_2

jdavtz wrote: »

Okay, I'm not (and I never was) saying an Aygo is definitely going to work out cheaper than several bangers, just that it's worth doing your own calculations as mpg makes a huge difference with current high fuel costs.

I'd not heard of those (presumably Aygo) faults, other than water leaking into load area (which hasn't happened to me), but are you saying an Aygo is more likely to have a fault than a random banger? If they're equally likely, then it's irrelevant.

Of course if you need to take finance to purchase the car that makes a big difference to the calculation.

Depreciation again doesn't matter in my calculation as I'm looking at total expenditure over say three years. If Aygo is still worth something at the end of the three years, that's a bonus!

Here are my fuel figures. I always fill up to the first automatic click off of the pump (95 RON Unleaded), almost always at the same petrol station.

Miles since fill    Litres    mpg=miles/(L*0.22)
409                 28.41     65.4
471                 32.60     65.7
412                 30.86     60.7
446                 30.38     66.7
428                 27.95     66.7
415                 29.35     69.6
470                 29.69     64.3
257                 18.03     72.0
466                 31.43     67.4
358                 25.91     62.8

I dont see how depreciation and finance costs dont matter, it makes a huge difference to figures like that, and hey ho, any car I have had always have some value left in them when I sell them on and I havent spent any more than £500 each on purchase in the last 4 years on cars, getting around two years out of each before selling on and theyre still driving around with other owners. Random faults are much more acceptable on a well used car rather than on a new car, i'd be more than miffed if I looked into the boot of my three year old car and found me cornflakes from the cheapy shop floating around in it after the boot started leaking;) And I think i'd have a little bit of trouble getting my kids, mum and her wheelchair and her groceries into an aygo tho:rolleyes: You really should contact Toyota and get them to check your car over, all the other ones that have been used in magazine and tv testing manage around 10mpg less than you get in normal driving, theirs must all be faulty:D And yes I agree, you do have to look into the use of the vehicle carefully and then decide on how you're gonna afford the running costs of it, no point in buying a 3.5ltr BMW for £500 and then find you cant afford the 20mpg petrol costs and £150 a week to fill it up. For you, running a new car works out, but for many, it's more a case of being seen with a new car that they really cant afford. Theres nothing wrong with a decent used car, and as pointed out in many other posts it wont mean having to spend thousands to buy one. :j

Ginger_Nuts_2

Paul_Varjak wrote: »

You are already preaching to the converted. I took the IAM Advanced Driving Test 30 years ago and was a winner in an RAC driving safety competition.

I think you will find that the recognised term is 'defensive' driving; not only does it save lives but it also saves on fuel, brakes and tyres. But to be really effective, defensive driving requires other drivers to drive in a similar fashion; sadly, that is not always the case so I would always prefer to be in the safest vehicle possible.

I know what defensive driving consists of, having also done my IAM test too many years ago to admit to:o But I stand by passive driving also, dont get your blood pressure up and cut people up and force them outta the way, just think ahead, take a deep breath and be much more passive in your attitude to others, peace brother:rotfl:

DuggyMak

I have always bought, privately, low-mileage, one-owner older cars, and do my own routine servicing. Since my traditional local garage with proper engineers, who could actually fix things, closed 4 years ago, (which I used for MOT's for 25 years), I have taken my car to the Local Authority garage for its MOT. They aren't allowed to repair any faults so have no incentive to fail your car! (See Martin's article about"MOT Cost Cutting & Finding a Council MOT"):
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/cheap-mot#find

I bought my previous car, a 1987 Daihatsu Charade CX Automatic (1litre engine), from an elderly neighbour who couldn't face using it after his wife died. It was garaged for several years, only going out twice-a-month to keep everything turning over. I bought it for £3500 at five-years-old with only 6,500 miles but it was well worth paying slightly more than the Parker's guide price. It was immaculate inside and out and, to be honest, still looked like a six-month-old car.

Within a year, I put a completely new exhaust system on it, at National Tyres, for £84 including a £10 lifetime guarantee, because I knew I would be keeping the car. I eventually had several new exhaust parts, (basically 3 complete systems) free-of-charge and, in fact, the last time I had a rear silencer box fitted it would have cost more than the original complete system. Definitely the best £10 I ever spent! No wonder National stopped offering such a good deal. My journey to work was 1.5 miles and I regularly worked 12-14 hour days, six-days-a-week, so I didn't have much time to add mileage, apart from holidays.

After 10 years, with less than 40,000 miles, in which the only major problems were a couple of bodywork repairs to the rear wheel arches, I gave it to my sister-in-law as it was still in excellent condition and far too good to scrap which, at the time, would have cost me £50. It regularly returned over 45MPG, on mixed driving, 30+ in town and 50+ on the motorway. I would certainly have no problem buying another Japanese car or an automatic.

My sister-in-law used it for another 3 years, as their second car for local running, and spent very little to get it through its MOT's (I still did the routine servicing). Unfortunately, it was labour/welding costs that finally sent it to the scrapyard when it failed the MOT on its19th birthday, with less than 50,000 miles on the clock. By that time the value of scrap metal had increased and she got £60 for it!!!

I replaced it 5 years ago with a 1998 Rover 400 1.4 16V (27,000 miles) bought from an elderly relative who was no longer allowed to drive. So far, it has been excellent, despite all the horror stories you read about head gasket failures etc. I paid £2,900 (Parker's Guide price) and apart from replacing the front brake pads, for £35 last year, I have only had to buy the usual exhaust, tyres, battery etc. I buy a case of oil (4x4.5litres to get a good discount) and parts from Motor Factors. A genuine Unipart oil filter was only £3.60 last week, 4.5litres of quality Comma 10/40 oil works out at £8.25, an air filter is £5.50 and a set of spark plugs £10.

The cheapest place for quality tyres is Costco, if you are lucky enough to have a card. I don't have one so, unless I needed to buy two tyres, I wouldn't bother asking my brother to use his card for me. For one tyre, three or four phone calls to different local tyre companies results in amazing discounts if you only ask! Budget seem to be the most keen to discount and beat their competitors. Bearing in mind your only contact with the road, even in the best weather conditions, is 4 small patches of rubber it is stupid not to buy decent tyres. They don't have to be the big brand names. Is your life and other's really worth putting at risk to save a few pounds by buying second-hand ones?

Obviously, I am not running the cheapest of cars, compared to some of you, but then, so far, I haven't had the hassle of changing on a regular basis and my knowledge of the car increases with time. With a little TLC most cars will reward you with many years of reliable motoring.

One other benefit that lots of people are discovering is the cheaper road tax, compared to modern cars, after the government's ill-thought-out retrospective road tax changes.

Finally, I once worked with someone, about 10 years ago, who thought their garage still checked and inflated his tyres when they serviced his car - he hadn't bothered to check in over 2 years. I suggested I checked them for him and they were 15lbs psi instead of 30lbs psi. After I corrected them, he couldn't believe the difference, and his wife thought it was a new car the next time she drove it, not to mention the increased miles per gallon!

As they say "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Or, in this case, shear laziness to even carry out the most basic of checks. Tyres are considered to be dangerous if they are more than 3lbs psi under the recommended pressure and his were all 15 lbs psi under!!!

Flyingharpy

Hi guys,

Been reading with interest, would you advise servicing your old cars to keep them in peak condition, or just MOTing them until they cost too much to pass?

Thanks!

Shell