Renting & access - have estate agents acted illegally?

Scribble

I failed to notice that when we renewed our tenancy, the estate agents had removed their obligation to arrange an appointment with us to come on the property to show people round.

Our flat is back on the market, I guess as we entered the last three months of our lease at the beginning of this month... We went away overnight and left the house at 6am on Friday and came back this afternoon (Saturday). On getting back we found a letter saying they were bringing someone round at 11:30 this morning! Checking the old contract this is totally against it (unless you're obstructive), but the new one seems to imply that that all they need to to do to gain entry is send us a letter arriving 24 hours in advance to give us notice. I can only presume the viewing went ahead.

They sent the letter 1st class on the 9th (Wednesday) but Royal Mail no longer guarantees next day delivery on first class items so they would NEED to send it then to give us the 24 hours (arriving 11th, appointment 12th). As it is it may have arrived this morning for all we know! And is that the point anyway?

This seems totally wrong. As far as I know, you cannot sign away your basic tenant's rights in a lease and all any letter does is seek permission for us to let them in the property. Their contract suggests we cannot rearrange for a mutually convenient time - we're forced to let them in unless they feel kind enough to let us change it.

It's a disgrace! At the very least this is an embarrassment as we're both really busy at the moment AND clearing stuff out in our spare time and the house although clean is in a bit of a mess. I guess we need to keep it ready for guests at all times for the next 10 weeks.

It's such a blow for us young professionals who when we were single and on several k less earlier this decade could go out and buy a terraced house, but as a couple can't really afford to buy between us now. It means we have to spend the next few years putting up with treatment like this... even if they HAVEN'T acted illegally it's an invasion of privacy in your own home and it puts me in a great mood for finding the next place with the next bunch of idiots. I've had other estate agents do this before with other properties without notice due to forgetting to contact us and let it go with just a stern phone call - maybe it's time we stopped that and started suing them for trespass.

Legal or illegal, it's made me a bit mad.

neverdespairgirl

Tell them "no". Say you are entitled to "quiet enjoyment".

Scribble

neverdespairgirl> The "quiet enjoyment" bit made me smile...

I'm off round there on Monday to go and tell them several sentences beginning with "no", and I'm going to try and resist ending them with "off".

real1314

I'd say it's trickier this one.

For one thing it "could" be argued that viewings don't affect your quiet enjoyment if you're not in.
Then again, you could argue that the concerns over safety / security of viewing when you are not in does.

I'd suggest a call to the agents asking them to agree that viewings only take place when you are in (if that's what you want) which shouldn't be seen as unreasonable imo, and otherwise to leave your washing strewn everywhere, dishes left in the sink, generally leave it a mess every morning.:D

I believe in give and take. If they won't give.....

Scribble

Yep, if it's not illegal, I signed that contract so that's it really... I think it's still an invasion and tramples on your basic rights as a tenant so will tell them I find it rude and ask them to phone us in future, at which point I'll be accommodating.

There's also a case for privacy as extending to your home and belongings not just your physical presence.

With every house, I hate renting a little bit more.

Lavendyr

I'd be seriously annoyed with our LA if they started letting themselves or others in when we were away or out, primarily because we pay for our own contents insurance and therefore take responsibility for seeing that the property is secured when we are away. Not to mention that I wouldn't want them nosing around what is to all intents and purposes my home while I was not present!

OP, definitely go round there on Monday and have a few firm (but polite) words with them...they really should apologise and agree to arrange appointments by mutual consent in future.

Scribble

Lavendyr wrote: »

I'd be seriously annoyed with our LA if they started letting themselves or others in when we were away or out, primarily because we pay for our own contents insurance and therefore take responsibility for seeing that the property is secured when we are away. Not to mention that I wouldn't want them nosing around what is to all intents and purposes my home while I was not present!

Great point about the insurance!

Scribble

I've done some research.

It would appear to be an unenforceable clause as it goes against basic tenants rights. Some landlords seem to disagree! This is turning into an interesting one indeed... a link...

http://community.channel4.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6026044741/m/8840057094

real1314

Scribble wrote: »

I've done some research.

It would appear to be an unenforceable clause as it goes against basic tenants rights. Some landlords seem to disagree! This is turning into an interesting one indeed... a link...

http://community.channel4.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6026044741/m/8840057094

The problem with all that is just that it's another set of opinions on message boards. Most of them are referring to it being an "unfair term" based on the OFT guidance, although I didn't see any link to these specific circumstances.

The OFT guidance actually suggests this as an appropriate term:

On giving the tenant at least 24 hours notice in writing, to allow the landlord, or any person acting on behalf of the landlord, access to view the property, during normal working hours, accompanying a prospective tenant or purchaser of the property.

That seems to go with the LA / LL in this case. It seems that a lot of people saying it's not acceptable haven't actually checked?

(link to OFT document here: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf

it's on page 79 of the document (page 82 for adobe).

tbs624

Scribble wrote: »

neverdespairgirl> The "quiet enjoyment" bit made me smile...

Scribble - it's a legal term and essentially it means that the property is your home and you are entitled to treat it as such which includes being able to make decisions about who enters and when. The LL/Agent may ask if they can bring someone round, but unless it is an emergency (and a viewing most definitely is not) you are absolutely entitled to request that they come at a time that it suitable for you or don't come in at all. Be polite but firm, and set up a webcam ............;).

Scribble

Cheers to both of you... Real1314 that's very useful, thanks... it's always easy finding opinions on the net but not always easy finding official ones!

It's really hard knowing if there is anything wrong here... certainly I don't like it if I have no right to refuse entry to these people or even reorganise them to a more convenient time or even insist to be in for insurance reasons.

The OFT and other opinions seem to differ on the matter. I can see the business logic of being able to make sales visit on behalf of others without your consent, but that's what it is isn't it? It doesn't require your knowledge or consent.