benefits 16 hour working rule

atrebor

Dear all,

I would love to hear from anyone who can give me advice on this point. I am the treasurer for a local nursery where one of our members of staff is a single mother and is claiming income support and I understand other benefits. She is a very lovely and honest member of staff and I really want to help her where I can on this - without breaking the law. She normally only works 7 hours a week, which I gather is fine as it is under 16 hours so she can still claim her entitlements. She was recently asked if she could cover for a colleague which would mean working 17 hours in one week. Initially the council said that would be fine, but i think that person was misinformed as now they are saying she would lose more that she would earn for that extra hour.

She want's to help us and has offered to work 16 hours paid and work the final hour voluntarily. I am happy for her to do that but am not sure if it is allowed - does unpaid work count towards the 16 hours? Also is it tapered in anyway? will she lose out by working 16 hours in one week when she normally would only work 7? I would rather hire someone else to cover than her to be out of pocket - but don't want to offend her in any way as I really value her as a member of staff.

I am not clear on all the benefits she receives but I think Income Support and Child tax credits are the main two? I am hoping to phone the council tomorrow to clarify (oxymoron?) but was wondering if anyone could explain it in plain English to me so I am a little clearer on how it all works. I am very fortunate in that I have had little to do with the benefits system and it seems like a nasty barby jungle to understand!

With many thanks

Conor_3

All work whether unpaid or paid counts. Just to also add that not to pay her for that hour would mean you're breaking the law on National Minimum Wage and it could technically be argued that she wasn't covered by employers liability insurance.

OTOH, that 16 hours DOES NOT INCLUDE BREAKS so it could be that the 17 hours total on site time is actually 16 hours plus 1hrs worth of breaks during that period.

Is there any option to be able to offer her 16hrs a week permanently as it would allow her to claim Working Tax Credits instead of IS and mean she is far better off?

atrebor

Thanks connor - thats what I though. If we offer her 16 hours and then get someone else to cover the extra hour, should that be legal - I'm still abit unclear on the breaks thing and because i'm scared of the power the council have. She has only just got a council house and has spent months living in a b and b and with family and I really don't want to put her in a bad position. i would love for her to work more hours - its something that I'm working on but we wouldn't be able to do 16 hours regually at the moment.

What I find hardest is finding out all the information without people suspecting your motives, the two conversations I've had with the benefit agencys so far seem to have them assuming I'm trying to defraud the system I'm really not, I just want to get her the best deal ..... legally

Spendless

AFAIK she has to be working UNDER 16 hours. Under 16 hours she can remain on IS and related benefits, and can keep a small amount of her wages (£20??? perhaps). 16 hours or over she would be on on working tax credits. Some benefits she would lose (like free school dinners). She might still get help with rent/ council tax but could keep any maintainance she receives for her child without it affecting her tax credits.

Somewhere like CAB can do her a 'better off' calcuation.

glossgal

How old is she? if she's over 22 then I think her earnings for this work would exceed her applicable amount and thus knock her off IS anyway? eg 15 hours x £5.52= £82.80. Even with the £20 disregard she is a couple of quid over the basic applicable amount for a single person/parent.

if she's younger it should be ok but I agree with others re; tax credits

Oldernotwiser

I'm sure you mean well but is it any business of yours how employment affects her benefits? She's an adult and I'm afraid your attitude seems rather paternalistic. Offer her the work you want her to do but suggest she checks out how this will affect her benefits before accepting. She'll have a Lone Parent Adviser at the Jobcentre who'll be able to run all the figures through the computer and advise her properly. There's a system in place for this sort of thing, rather than somebody making enquiries on her behalf on a public website.

glossgal

...am inclined to agree tbh. There's no harm in making general enquires here but I don't really think it's appropriate for you to be calling any official bodies in your professional capacity, especially as you mentioned DWP already getting shirty with you about this. It wouldn't be the norm for employers or their reps to be asking detailed questions so you may be doing more harm than good by arousing their suspicions (I know you have good intentions but they don't know this-employers collude in benefit and tax scams, its not unheard of)

Pass on the advice already given and tell her to visit CAB or JCP for more specific advice.

atrebor

Thank you all - I'm sorry if I come accross paternalistic - not really my intention. I do believe it is my responsibility to have a basic understanding of the current rules and regs so we cannot be abused by benefit frauds etc in the future. In this case I am sure she is genuinly trying to help us out of a tough spot, and she has asked me for advice as I think she doesn't really understand it all, and to an extent I am happy to help. We are in a very close community and there is a great supporting environment here, which is possibly why I'm ok with it, where as if I was back int he city I wouldn't go near things like this. You are right that I have no place looking in to her financial matters closely and I wouldn't want to and I will tell her to visit CAB as suggested. I have so far called anoymously and I suspect that is why they have been shirty - and I guess I can see why. On a personal note, I do find it so sad that mistrust and suspiciion is the norm in all areas of life. I am not naive but sometimes I wish I was, the world would be a prettier place. I am however under educated in this area of the system and will be looking in to how I can learn more.


And yes I will be very cautious and professional and not get to involved.

Thanks all

robpw2

Conor wrote: »

All work whether unpaid or paid counts. Just to also add that not to pay her for that hour would mean you're breaking the law on National Minimum Wage and it could technically be argued that she wasn't covered by employers liability insurance.

OTOH, that 16 hours DOES NOT INCLUDE BREAKS so it could be that the 17 hours total on site time is actually 16 hours plus 1hrs worth of breaks during that period.

Is there any option to be able to offer her 16hrs a week permanently as it would allow her to claim Working Tax Credits instead of IS and mean she is far better off?

you wouldnt be breakig the law on the national minimum wage and regarding insurance she would be covered as many nursieris employ volunteers. usually parents.

but she would be doing more hours

glossgal

Nothing wrong in trying to help OP, this an admirable quality! The trouble is the benfits system can be very complex and really IMHO as a general rule it's best not to get involved in advising others full stop (unless on here of course:)). In 'real life' it can become like chinese whispers and I've seen first hand people in a right pickle because they misunderstood info from a third party. Also personally I don't think as a small employer you really do have a duty to be familar with benefits, but we can agree to disagree..

fast_track

Have a look at entitledto.com. At 16 hours she would be entitled to Working Tax Credit but her Housing and Council tax benefit would reduce. If she gets maintenance that is disregarded as income for tax credits so it does depend on her circumstances.