Unorthorised overdraft charges

catalonia13

dchurch24 wrote:

We also do not have the right to choose how we are paid OUR wages. You know, the money that WE EARN.
This right was revoked in about 1985 by Thatchers Govt. - you know; the one which had cabinet ministers on the board of directors of large banks.
...and what with this govt. heavily encouraging people to have benifits paid directly into a bank as well, the banking industry in this country needs a serious shake up - not the half-hearted 'consumer credit laws' overhaul at the beginning of this year.

I never wanted a bank account - I still don't - I believe that having a bank account is quite possibly the fastest way of depleting personal wealth, however, I am now more-or-less forced into having one - mortgage won't be paid unless by DD, some insurances(usually the cheapest) only accept DD, I HAVE to be paid by BACS etc...
So if I am bad at managing my account, so what!?? I didn't ask for it in the first place.
If there is not enough money in the account to pay a DD, then that is a matter between myself and the person/org. who has not been paid. Why the bank feel it is their business I have no idea.
A bit of common sense is needed.
If I held your money for you, and your friend asked me for £10 that you borrowed from him, but I was only holding your last £5, why would it be pertinant for me to charge you £39 because of it?

I would rather be paid in cash, and keep the money in my house and take my chances with the 'honest' theives.

Slightly off-topic I admit, and for that I apologise.

Couldn't have put it better myself! Thank you I also never wanted a bank account.

safari_2

Another thing - don't forget to claim back the interest they've charged you on the penalty charges.

As an aside, does anyone know whether if you win one of these cases you get something put on your file at the credit bureaux?

Fedz

dchurch24 wrote:

Oh, one other thing before the old 'don't spend money you haven't got' argument is spouted again, let me reiterate for those that don't/can't be bothered to read and/or are unaware of the world around them:

You get charged for Direct Debits and/or Standing Orders that DON'T GET PAID - THEY ARE RETURNED UNPAID - THE BANK HAS NOT USED IT'S MONEY - THE BANK DID NOT PAY THE SUM PAYABLE - NO MONEY THAT WASN'T THERE HAS BEEN USED - Etc, etc.... in other words, no money has been spent - therefore not spending money I haven't got.

It's not that people "don't/can't be bothered to read ..." it's a valid statement that can and is correct.

If you have DD's and or SO's that have been set-up by the account holder and fail due to insufficient funds then yes it is money your trying to spend that isn't your's OR agreed too.

Kind regards

dchurch24

Another thing - don't forget to claim back the interest they've charged you on the penalty charges.

Oh yes, sorry - forgot about that - as per the 1984 County Courts Act, you can charge 8% apr for each charge. Before then it used to be 16% apr - which I think is more like it - seeing as credit card companies are allowed to charge pretty much what they like (had a junk mail through the post this morning for a 69.9% apr credit card!!!!)

As an aside, does anyone know whether if you win one of these cases you get something put on your file at the credit bureaux?

There should be nothing on your credit reference regarding any legal case - it is not an indication of your credit-worthiness. If they were to do that, I would consider it defamatory and would take appropriate action.

dchurch24

If you have DD's and or SO's that have been set-up by the account holder and fail due to insufficient funds then yes it is money your trying to spend that isn't your's OR agreed too.

I take it that you have never put your hand in your pocket only to find that the money you thought was there actually wasn't? Or put your card in a cashpoint and tried to withdraw money and found that you didn't have it there to withdraw?
Should the bank have charged you £39 each time perhaps?
If this has never happened to you, then you must have too much time on your hands, as you must be in and out of your banks branch getting up-to-the-minute statements (and in my experience, not such a thing exists) more often than your average yo-yo goes up and down.
I, and probably lots of other people, have lives to lead and don't have the time to either; use out of date Internet banking, out of date and generally incorrect (shows 'uncleared' funds as funds) cashpoint balances, or request statements on the hour from our banks.

If I attempted to get money from a cash machine and didn't have the funds, why am I not charged £39 then? Perhaps, by your logic, I should be.
Or perhaps you would argue that it's none of the banks business.

jonesMUFCforever

dchurch24 wrote:

I take it that you have never put your hand in your pocket only to find that the money you thought was there actually wasn't? Or put your card in a cashpoint and tried to withdraw money and found that you didn't have it there to withdraw?
Should the bank have charged you £39 each time perhaps?
If this has never happened to you, then you must have too much time on your hands, as you must be in and out of your banks branch getting up-to-the-minute statements (and in my experience, not such a thing exists) more often than your average yo-yo goes up and down.
I, and probably lots of other people, have lives to lead and don't have the time to either; use out of date Internet banking, out of date and generally incorrect (shows 'uncleared' funds as funds) cashpoint balances, or request statements on the hour from our banks.

If I attempted to get money from a cash machine and didn't have the funds, why am I not charged £39 then? Perhaps, by your logic, I should be.
Or perhaps you would argue that it's none of the banks business.

I don't know if you were drunk when you typed the above but either that or you are a complete !!!!!
Internet banking is as up to date as when you log in to check your balance and most banks cashpoints statements show balances and available balances.If you can't fathom this out then it is you who has a problem not the bank! Yeah get a life and spend money you don't have willy nilly then blame someone else because you're a complete plonker!
Its quite easy you know;have £100 in your account and spend £99 no problem have £100 in your account and spend £101 then the banks will take you to the cleaners.Its your call.
Eric

Walletwatch

dchurch24 wrote:

I take it that you have never put your hand in your pocket only to find that the money you thought was there actually wasn't? Or put your card in a cashpoint and tried to withdraw money and found that you didn't have it there to withdraw?
Should the bank have charged you £39 each time perhaps?
If this has never happened to you, then you must have too much time on your hands, as you must be in and out of your banks branch getting up-to-the-minute statements (and in my experience, not such a thing exists) more often than your average yo-yo goes up and down.
I, and probably lots of other people, have lives to lead and don't have the time to either; use out of date Internet banking, out of date and generally incorrect (shows 'uncleared' funds as funds) cashpoint balances, or request statements on the hour from our banks.

If I attempted to get money from a cash machine and didn't have the funds, why am I not charged £39 then? Perhaps, by your logic, I should be.
Or perhaps you would argue that it's none of the banks business.

I've been following this thread and the other more detailed one on bank charges keenly, and I must say, dchurch, that while I have always maintained that the charges levied by banks in most cases is unreasonably high, this does not condone you spending (or even trying to spend) money that is not yours. If you set up a DD or an SO, you have made a commitment to the third party that you will make a specific payment on a specific date from a specific bank, for which your bank requires you to have funded the account adequately. If you do not have sufficient funds in your account, it is no different from you having issued a cheque that has to be 'bounced' on account of insufficient funds.

In such a scenario, the bank would conclude that you have gone about managing your account in a financially irresponsible manner in violation of the terms and conditions you signed up to, and hence apply the charge (which incidentally you again have signed up to) If it is a first time offence, or if the charges have been erroneously applied, in my experience, banks always hear you out, and where applicable, reverse all or part of the charges, so I've found them to be reasonable on that count as well.

And before you ask, yes, I myself have borne the brunt of this charge once two years ago (an amount of £20 charged by Barclays on my wife's credit card), after which I have been extra careful and never let it happen again. In other words, irrespective of all the legalese of whether these charges are 'punitive' and hence unlawful, the charges have had the desired effect, and I've resolved never to get myself into such a situation ever again. I don't think this would have been the case if the charges were any lower, and hence affordable. I agree that my experience has not been as extreme as some of the cases we hear on this forum. But I still say that a signature campaign against banks and letters to your local MP to reduce these charges is all fine, so long as it is complemented by an appreciation of the fact that one needs to conduct his finances responsibly, not issue chqs without money to cover it, be aware of the SOs and DDs due so that one can fund his account in a timely fashion, etc.

frepol

If I get charged then fine no problem - I should know better. Then again, my bank doesn't charge me because they understand my finances and I have the confidence and social skills to ring up and negotiate with them so that I don't have a black mark against me and the bills are paid.

But then I am a teacher. My focus is special needs. However, most of the pupils I teach in a school of 700 pupils will never have the skills to negotiate such refunds or have the numerical abiity to manage their finances effectively. Each September, I spend a lot of time showing 16 and 17 olds how to fill in online application forms for bank accounts. The words terms and conditions are outside many young people's understanding, never mind the legalistic language within them.

I despair of you people who work in banks. Are you so indoctrinated that you cannot see any other point of view? Can you not see that it is the vulnerable who suffer?

...............................................

dchurch24

Abbey have informed me that their Internet banking DOES NOT update at the weekend, therefore any transactions over the weekend will not show until Monday. As I believed.

Their own cashpoints will give balances and available balances, but not if I use another banks cashpoint - my banks cashpoint is a 22 mile round-trip for me - therefore I will not use it unless I happen to be near there.

Please state facts rather than fiction Eric.

You could verify these facts with a simple phone call if you can manage it.

I was not drunk nor am I a complete !!!!! as you so politely put it. I simply stated the facts as reported to me by the bank itself.

Yeah get a life and spend money you don't have willy nilly then blame someone else because you're a complete plonker!

As it happens, in my particular case there were all sorts of reasons why the money was not in my account - including an employer who was not very good at paying on time or the correct amount. That firm no longer exists and so I cannot pursue them for the charges. I decided to pursue the purveyor of the charges instead, as I believe them [the charges] to be of questionable legality. Indeed, as Walletwatch has mentioned:

the charges have had the desired effect

...making the charges a deterrent. Therefore a penalty. etc... etc...


As for 'you signed the T&C's' - If someone can show me a bank account (in the UK) where these charges are not in the T&C's then I will gladly sign up for it. Sadly they seem to have formed some sort of cartel.

and where applicable, reverse all or part of the charges, so I've found them to be reasonable on that count as well.

...probably because the know of the legalities of such charges and don't want to push too hard...just in case.

cifpower

The Co=operative Bank Cashminder account comes with a Visa Electron card and no charges for returned DDs or SOs.