Student loan query

casper2004

oops

I am soon away to start to pay back min and are unsure whether to pay more or just the minimum required.

I am soon away to start to pay back my student loans and are unsure whether to pay more or just the minimum required.

pioneer31

How appropriate that your last paragraph is fully described by your first.

I know people who are doing just that. Are you inferring that I'm imagining it?

So, rather than just spouting some silly anti-student tripe (as the original poster did), I am commenting on what I have seen and experienced.

As one of my unemployed acquaintances is now expecting his 5th child (he hasn't worked for 10 years and his wife isn't working either) and has surpassed my salary with his handouts I kinda wonder why the hell I bother to get out of bed in the morning to make the 17 mile soul destroying journey to work.

frepol

I'm not for one second suggesting that there isn't the odd person screwing the system for a few quid.

However, this is typical Daily Mail/ Express hysteria that is whipped up out of all proportion.

Believe me, the amount lost to the exchequer in tax evasion (sorry avoidance) by the richest 10% of our society makes those who fraud the social security system, and the amounts of money received, a mere drop in the ocean.

But hey - in right wing land that's fine. Screw the poor, fleece Joe Average, so the rich don't have to pay tax.

pioneer31

I'm not for one second suggesting that there isn't the odd person screwing the system for a few quid.

However, this is typical Daily Mail/ Express hysteria that is whipped up out of all proportion.

I read your mind. I was just wondering how long it would be before the Daily Mail newspaper was mentioned!

Are you one of those closet readers? ......you know, the ones who publicy decry it as a load of crap but always seem to know whats in it  ;)

Believe me, the amount lost to the exchequer in tax evasion (sorry avoidance) by the richest 10% of our society makes those who fraud the social security system, and the amounts of money received, a mere drop in the ocean.

I'm sure you're right.....but I would point out that the DSS bill is quite substantial.

But hey - in right wing land that's fine.  Screw the poor, fleece Joe Average, so the rich don't have to pay tax.

not at all. You have misunderstood me. I'm not advocating that.


....but when I hear anti-student propaganda I feel that I have to re-dress the balance and flag up the actions of other sections of society.

What would you rather have? Lots of students costing us money or lots of career DSS claimaints costing us money.

Which one is the better investment for the country?


p.s. Trevor McDonald's programme Tonight was about the growing problem of sickness benefit cheats in the UK

repeated at 3.45am if you're interested

frepol

Are you one of those closet readers? ......you know, the ones who publicy decry it as a load of crap but always seem to know whats in it

No - but the headlines in the Express especially are very hard to miss (it sits beside the Irish News in the shop so I have the misfortune of seeing it every morning.) Would do the code word puzzle in the Mail though if someone left it sitting!

For what it's worth, I graduated with £11000 in the old style loans and will reach the threshold next April and to be honest, I haven't a clue how I'm going to afford it. I went into teaching so have not made a mint at all, but I love my job and did a degree with the express intention of doing it.

I am by no means a student basher (I'm still a part - time one) but I do think that we have to be careful not to bash other sections of society. Bear in mind that one of the major problems with incapacity benefit and other sickness benefits is that social security staff are wetting themselves to get the long term unemployed to claim them so that they disappear from the jobless figures. A recent study showed that 1% or less of incapacity claims were fraudulent, and this does not tie in with the headlines of the Daily Mail, Express and its TV version 'Tonight with Trevor McDonald.'

I agree that the DSS bill is quite substantial, but the vast majority of that is legitimate. I personally cannot begrudge a 50 year old man who has paid tax and national insurance for 35 years a reasonable standard of living if he is unable to work due to age, illness or outdated skills - especially if he is willing to work with the system and retrain or do voluntary work if he is unable to hold down a full time job because of illness. Do we really want to be like America where the rich live well and the poor can go to hell?

We really cannot allow the 1% of rogues and !!!!!! artists to divert our attention and focus away from the fact that the social security system is there as a safety net that we could all end up needing one day.

pioneer31

A recent study showed that 1% or less of incapacity claims were fraudulent, and this does not tie in with the headlines of the Daily Mail, Express and its TV version 'Tonight with Trevor McDonald.'

who says that Tonight is the TV version of the Daily Mail?

I agree that the DSS bill is quite substantial, but the vast majority of that is legitimate.  I personally cannot begrudge a 50 year old man who has paid tax and national insurance for 35 years a reasonable standard of living if he is unable to work due to age, illness or outdated skills - especially if he is willing to work with the system and retrain or do voluntary work if he is unable to hold down a full time job because of illness.  Do we really want to be like America where the rich live well and the poor can go to hell?

We really cannot allow the 1% of rogues and !!!!!! artists to divert our attention and focus away from the fact that the social security system is there as a safety net that we could all end up needing one day.

of course I don't begrudge a 50 year old unemployed person claiming either but that was not my original argument. My concern is with some of the younger fit and healthier generation who seem unable to stir themselves into action. It varies from town to town but more than 1% of people in my area are 'career' DSS claimants.

The govt are quite happy to punish the pensioners who have paid into the pot but only too willing to hand out benefits to the younger generation.

I have been unemployed myself (albeit for a short time) and I witnessed how inept the DSS were. They couldn't catch a cold never mind a benefit layabout. They dont check whether you are looking for work, thee are no proper checks on disability benefits as the doctors just sign the forms willy nilly.

I dispute the 1% figure. It's higher than that. Thats is, if you ignore govt manipulated figures and the ramblings of left wing columnists who seemed determined that the UK is a bottomless pit of cash

frepol

who says that Tonight is the TV version of the Daily Mail?

Me! Sensationalist, reactive reporting without looking at the bigger picture.

It varies from town to town but more than 1% of people in my area are 'career' DSS claimants.

How do you know this? At the end of the day, we don't know what happens behind people's front doors or what their circumstances are.

They dont check whether you are looking for work, thee are no proper checks on disability benefits as the doctors just sign the forms willy nilly.

Most people have to appeal to the tribunial before they receive any of the 'higher' disability / incapacity benefits. Here they face questioning and examination by an independent doctor.

The govt are quite happy to punish the pensioners who have paid into the pot but only too willing to hand out benefits to the younger generation.

It was a Tory government that removed index linking of pensions. The younger generation may get benefits, but being on JSA is a pain in the backside. Also, I would not for one second advocate punishing the children of those tiny minority who see children as a cash cow - and let's face it, the money ain't great anyway.

I dispute the 1% figure. It's higher than that. Thats is, if you ignore govt manipulated figures and the ramblings of left wing columnists who seemed determined that the UK is a bottomless pit of cash

1% was independent research. The Uk is not a bottomless pit of cash, but neither is it so poor that it has to disadvantage the genuinely worse off for the sins of a small minority of cheats.

pioneer31

Me!  Sensationalist, reactive reporting without looking at the bigger picture.

How do you know this? Just because it's on ITV, you assume its automatically hysterical tabloid reporting. The programme on Monday night was based on surveys done across the UK.

How do you know this?  At the end of the day, we don't know what happens behind people's front doors or what their circumstances are.

the T McDonald programme quoted figures which showed that the problem is growing.

Most people have to appeal to the tribunial before they receive any of the 'higher' disability / incapacity benefits.  Here they face questioning and examination by an independent doctor.

you didn't see the Trevor McDonald programme then where people in the business contradicted what you've just said.

It was a Tory government that removed index linking of pensions.  The younger generation may get benefits, but being on JSA is a pain in the backside.  Also, I would not for one second advocate punishing the children of those tiny minority who see children as a cash cow - and let's face it, the money ain't great anyway.

well, in some circumstances you have a 20 year old girl claiming £1150 pcm for 6 kids and a council house, you also have a family of two non working parents with 8 kids who claim £37,000 a year. I don't call that peanuts.

frepol

How do you know this? Just because it's on ITV, you assume its automatically hysterical tabloid reporting. The programme on Monday night was based on surveys done across the UK.

Because I've watched the programme enough times to make a judgement about it.

the T McDonald programme quoted figures which showed that the problem is growing

The problem for both you and me here is that old saying - 'there's lies, damn lies and statistics!'

you didn't see the Trevor McDonald programme then where people in the business contradicted what you've just said.

Certainly not what I've heard from civil servants. The problem here could be that it depends on the region you're in and the way that the guidelines are interpreted. However, the difficulty of getting it is clear from talking to people who work in benefits offices and the general trend (at least here in Northern Ireland) is to decline applications and see what the tribunial says. Also, there is a thread on this board about disability benefits where people have been saying - including people who work in advocacy that it is likely that an application will initially be declined and will need a ruling from the tribunial before it is granted - certainly at the higher level.

well, in some circumstances you have a 20 year old girl claiming £1150 pcm for 6 kids and a council house, you also have a family of two non working parents with 8 kids who claim £37,000 a year. I don't call that peanuts.

This is the kind of sensationalism that I'm referring to. How many people are there that have managed to manipulate / defraud the system to this degree. There's probably several people in every county and the amount that they're claiming is probably a fraction of 1% of the total social security budget. At what level is this the responsibility of the decision makers in the social security offices? After all, it is they who are granting the money. This girl could not claim £1150 per month if somebody wasn't sending her the giros. Think about it - if it were that easy, the country would be bankrupt because we'd all be doing it.

Again, I come back to the point that we cannot deprive the 99.99% of honest people of their entitlement because of the actions of a dishonest and manipulative minority.

chugalug

Oh My God!! I've come over all peculiar!! I didnt realise I was hated on so many levels!! Single parent of more than one child (ouch) benefit claimant (ouch) tenant of social housing (ouch) signed of work with depression and claimed benefits again (ouch) full time student (ouch). In my opinion any statistic can only give a snapshot of what is happening at any given time. All the above did not happen at the same time and of course I've paid back into society on many levels (including taxes) but isnt that the point of the welfare state? Should this be on the discussion thread where we can all give an opinion? Or do we now want to go back to the original question of student loan repayment?