Will they move or not?!

Konisberg

Hi. Ok need some help with this one. We have returned to a property for a third viewing (saw it first a month ago). The family are moving abroad and we have been told that they will just go and into rented there. This time we met the vendor and had a chance to ask them questions, the main one being about timescales. We were told for the right price they would move out quickly (though they really mean in normal timescales, say 2 months) or perhaps end of July, or perhaps end of July with some convenience time(?). In other words - very vague. We asked about taking children out of school and he said no problem because they are moving abroad. He also told us he was a teacher. My partner is a teacher too, so she asked what about the terms notice, he said, wouldn't be a problem as he could just leave as he was moving abroad . So our dilemma is, we do not want to be held up in a long drawn out purchase. They are advertised as chain free and that is what we expected. We are in rented on a rolling AST, so we only need to give one months notice. We have a mortgage offer in place (from previous failed purchase) so we are very proceedable. We are not confident that even at the "right" price, we will be able to get in when we want (ie a reasonable time) and I feel that we could be sitting around here in September with them still trying to sort their lives out. As there is no financial commitment on their part I am worried. Other than saying offer is subject to exchanging in 28 days with completion say one month after, is there any other way we can get them to commit to a timescale?

merlinthehappypig

From personal experience this is a real problem at the moment.

We have agreed a price on a number of properties in the last 3 months or so, only to find out that the sellers won't move out within a reasonable timescale. We are putting it down to the fact that sellers are having to take offers and, because they begrudge that, aren't prepared to put themselves out at all.

We have had yet another offer accepted last week where we now find that the seller is unwilling to put any sort of date on completion as they 'need to find somewhere first'.

The last three times we sold we moved into rented. In this market you would think that sellers would be biting your arm off, but not so.

We are considering asking our solicitor to ask the seller to make some sort of binding commitment to a certain timescale before we proceed, but don't know if this is possible.

We aren't prepared to risk another £2500 in legal and survey fees only to get nowhere.

Strapped

I'd be very careful. We had a similar situation in buying this place from a teacher. They were moving abroad, and when we first offered/had the offer accepted, we agreed to a certain delay between exchange and completion, but ON THE DAY OF EXCHANGE the sellers decided they needed an extra month, which we couldn't give them due to mortgage timescale constraints. The deal very, very nearly fell apart, and it ended up costing us a grand as they effectively held us to ransom for their "additional letting costs" while he completed his contract in the UK. (B*stards).

I doubt I would put myself in that position again - lesson learnt (pun intended).

Konisberg

Thanks for the responses. Merlin, I didn't want to complicate the story originally but you are spot on with your opinion. This property has been on the market since October and dropped in price three times, a total of 37k less than the original asking price. There is nothing wrong with it, but it has some awkward spaces upstairs which may not suit a family. (easily remedied) The vendors words were exactly "we would be prepared to put ourselves out for the right price".

Strapped - that is exactly what we are worried about, the fact that it would be so easy for them to just turn around and say they needed more time. I thought perhaps a sliding scale offer based on time scales, as like you we would start to have additional financial penalties the longer we had to wait to move. Perhaps a sliding scale of offers based on the actual completion date. I'm not particularly happy about this but financial penalties seem to be the only way to get people to get their act together. I wish I could rely on peoples integrity but experience tells me this would be stupid! I feel we have put in a good offer based on the asking price (3% under) and we have made it clear it will be our only offer as we didn't want to do the backwards forwards thing. I think I will talk to my solicitor on Monday to see if anything can be drawn up.

Nenen

Hi, I'm a teacher too and am a bit concerned about your situation. I hate to disappoint you but I'd think really carefully about whether to proceed with this unless you are prepared for the consequences of a delay in completion. Depending upon the type of school he teaches in the notice can vary.... in most state schools he would have to give half a term's notice, i.e. give notice by the May half term to leave at the end of July, whereas the contract one signs to work in most private schools agrees a whole term's notice, i.e. he would need to resign by the first day of the forthcoming term (around the 7th April for private schools in my area).

However, the thing that really bothers me is him saying that he doesn't need to give the agreed notice as he is going abroad. When he signed his contract he agreed to the set notice period and this allows the school adequate time to find a replacement for him. It could be that his employer has agreed to waiver the normal notice period but in my experience this is unlikely. Rather, I assume from this, he is saying that he won't be giving the agreed notice period as he isn't bothered about ever working in this country again so is happy to leave his current school in the lurch without a teacher to replace him. If a teacher reneges on a contract in this way then s/he would be very unlikely to be able to get another teaching job in this country. I'm sorry to say this but IMHO any professional who takes that cavalier attitude to his contract and professional responsibilities wouldn't be someone I'd trust to 'play by the rules' or honour any agreement we made regarding timescales etc.

I learned the hard way many years ago (being pregnant, having a toddler to settle and husband's job moving halfway across the country) that you cannot trust people to stick by the dates they originally agree to. We had two sales fall through because of people promising us that they would move out into rented/in with family if their own purchase wasn't ready and in both cases when it came to the crunch they wouldn't do it.

Is there any way that if the worst happens and you don't complete on time that you could rent in the area this house is so that your child could be settled into school? If not, then I'd seriously consider walking away!

chappers

Not sure of the exact situation here you would need to ask your solicitor.
But if you got to the stage where you agreed a price and exchanged with a date set for completion and they failed to complete on that day you could then issue a notice to complete if they then failed to complete within 10 days they would then be in breach of contract and you could then sue them for any costs you have incurred due to the breach, in this case you might be able to claim for accomodation and the expenses relating to that(maybe hotel and storgae or rent on either your existing property or another one), I'm not entirely sure though, you would have to speak to your solicitor.
They would definitely though be responsible for your legal costs and any other costs relating to the purchase.
If you make this clear to them when you offer(probablybest done through the solicitors) and move to exchange ASAP this would tell you how likely they were to mess you around.
I would set a time scale with them of say two weeks to exchange or else the offer is withdrawn and lokk somewhere else.
If they won't commit to exchange, with acompletion date set, why should you think they are going to move out when they say they are.

merlinthehappypig

chappers wrote: »

Not sure of the exact situation here you would need to ask your solicitor.
But if you got to the stage where you agreed a price and exchanged with a date set for completion and they failed to complete on that day you could then issue a notice to complete if they then failed to complete within 10 days they would then be in breach of contract and you could then sue them for any costs you have incurred due to the breach, in this case you might be able to claim for accomodation and the expenses relating to that(maybe hotel and storgae or rent on either your existing property or another one), I'm not entirely sure though, you would have to speak to your solicitor.
They would definitely though be responsible for your legal costs and any other costs relating to the purchase.
If you make this clear to them when you offer(probablybest done through the solicitors) and move to exchange ASAP this would tell you how likely they were to mess you around.
I would set a time scale with them of say two weeks to exchange or else the offer is withdrawn and lokk somewhere else.
If they won't commit to exchange, with acompletion date set, why should you think they are going to move out when they say they are.

I think the issue here for the OP, and many others, is the bit before exchange. The seller agrees a date in principle, but when they have to commit to exchange and set a completion date, they delay, resulting in additional costs or the whole deal going pear-shaped.

Like the OP we would like to see something at an early stage which commits the seller to a definite timescale or enforces penalties to cover the wasted money. I doubt this is possible in our house purchase system, though.

We are going to speak to our solicitor tomorrow as we seem to be in exactly the same situation as the OP. We've agreed a price, but expect the seller to muck us about for two months, then ask for more time (or money) and we aren't prepared to do this.

This is the third house in as many months where we have agreed a price, but the seller wants an indefinite timescale to move out.

chappers

Indeed as I said I would give a deadline to exchange and if they failed to exchange I would walk away and find someone who is willing to commit in a legal way, I appreciate there is probably a mortgage valuation to take into account that could be lost but you can set the completion date to be say at the end of July (after the school term has finished) and this should give you enough time to then carry out all the other legal stuff and give notice to your landlord.
It is a pain in the proverbial but as merlin says those are to a certain degree the problems with our house purchase system.

Konisberg

Ok. Perhaps setting exchange for one month, with completion six weeks later. I'd be happy to tie ourselves up for one month and if they don't exchange and agree the pre agreed completion date, we can pull out. Doesn't stop us looking at other properties in the meantime. We would lose the survey and solicitors costs though, but I would be willing to risk this I think.

Konisberg

Sorry Chappers I was posting at the same time as you, but in essence have taken your advice. It's the only way to keep it simple and to not risk being tied up in something for a long time. thanks

chappers

Aye speak to your solicitor to see what you can have done between exchange and completion to keep your risk down, any costs between exchange and completion will be covered under the term of the contract if they fail to complete.
Just try to adjust the timing so that you don't give notice on your rental before exchange, I know this goes against your intentions of completing as soon as possible but you don't want to be left homeless if they fail to exchange i would get on to your solicitor ASAP and make your decision based upon his advice as to how it will all work and more importanly what you will be able to claim if they fail to complete and you are left homeless.