Loyal Natwest customers shunned after online fraud

chris1980

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone has any help/advice for me, on behalf of my parents, after someone got hold of their online banking details somehow and robbed them of nearly £6,000 – of which Natwest have only offered to give them back £150.

This is quite a long story and I'm relaying it as a third party so I'll try to be as concise as I can.

Sometime last week my parents we're trying to make a routine purchase, when their cards we're declined. My Dad popped into his branch to ask what was going on, to be told his account had been emptied and it looked like fraud. This was a working day and I think he had to leave at that point as he was late for a meeting. Hurriedly (and understandably stressed out) on his way to the meeting his phone went, it was Natwest.

The thing is, Natwest will not reimburse anyone if they gave out their details in response to a 'phishing' email, and it seems that they have cajoled a semi-confession from my Dad (a Natwest customer for over 30 years), even though he does not recall filling in any details in this way. Worse still, they recorded this conversation/interrogation without warning him first (is this legal?).

It also appears the bank flagged the unusual activity on the account several hours before my parents were left to discover it for themselves, in which time more money was taken.

My folks aren't very technically minded at all and know only the very basics of using internet/email. I was speaking to my dad yesterday who is obviously very upset (they're having to cancel a holiday to the far east, which they've been planning for ages – and stand to lose the deposit) he remembers receiving a 'suspicious activity' phishing email, but doesn't remember ever filling in his bank details (I'd warned them about these emails before). I was going to get him to check the URL link in the email, but he'd deleted it in panic after he discovered what had happened. I also tried to get him to check his browsing history but this is pretty tricky to make sense of over the phone.

...Surely the details could have just as easily been obtained by some spyware or something else like that.

Anyhow, to sum up

Is it not up to Natwest to prove that he gave away his details, rather than him to prove he didn't?

Can Natwest use a recorded semi-confession (I think he only said he might have given away bank details), acquired in very questionable circumstances as evidence of responsibility?

Does anyone have any clue about this or have experienced anything similar? I'd be very grateful for any replies

...I think their case is currently on appeal, or something like that, but it's not looking promising.

flutterbyuk25

Sorry can't help you with the bulk of the query but legally they cannot record the conversation without asking his permission or stating in the automated service (when you ring them) that the call may be recorded for training/monitoring purposes.

Hope its sorted for them soon

x

~Beanie~

I would take it further. In September last year, my not very PC savvy brother replied to a phishing email and gave all his details. The fraudsters then emptied his 2 NatWest accounts of nearly £10k.

NatWest carried out an investigation, opened him a new account with a temporary overdraft whilst they looked into it and eventually fully refunded him the fill amount (about 3 weeks later I think).

natweststaffmember

I do think you need to find out exactly how this occurred. If you receive a phishing email delete it. I am surprised that the unusual activity on the account did not flag somehing at the bank. I think your father needs to speak to natwest fraud team as well as getting a printout the transactions. I think you may want to get natwest to confirm Dates and times online banking was logged in and the times the payment instructions were made.

amandathepanda

In all my years working for Natwest I have never known them to record an interview with a customer. Is your father sure that the interview was recorded?
In my experience your father will get his money back.

marjorymidge

hi chris ,the same thing has just happened to me and my husband with natwest, how is your parents appeal going? did they use a solicitor to do it . we are not sure what to do? bank extremely unhelpful. we need to appeal but not sure how and it does not look good to get money back .did they send a copy of the so called confession to your parents? i have asked them to send it to me to see what i actually said about repliying to email. going crazy at the moment .thanks for any help .

chris1980 wrote: »

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone has any help/advice for me, on behalf of my parents, after someone got hold of their online banking details somehow and robbed them of nearly £6,000 – of which Natwest have only offered to give them back £150.

This is quite a long story and I'm relaying it as a third party so I'll try to be as concise as I can.

Sometime last week my parents we're trying to make a routine purchase, when their cards we're declined. My Dad popped into his branch to ask what was going on, to be told his account had been emptied and it looked like fraud. This was a working day and I think he had to leave at that point as he was late for a meeting. Hurriedly (and understandably stressed out) on his way to the meeting his phone went, it was Natwest.

The thing is, Natwest will not reimburse anyone if they gave out their details in response to a 'phishing' email, and it seems that they have cajoled a semi-confession from my Dad (a Natwest customer for over 30 years), even though he does not recall filling in any details in this way. Worse still, they recorded this conversation/interrogation without warning him first (is this legal?).

It also appears the bank flagged the unusual activity on the account several hours before my parents were left to discover it for themselves, in which time more money was taken.

My folks aren't very technically minded at all and know only the very basics of using internet/email. I was speaking to my dad yesterday who is obviously very upset (they're having to cancel a holiday to the far east, which they've been planning for ages – and stand to lose the deposit) he remembers receiving a 'suspicious activity' phishing email, but doesn't remember ever filling in his bank details (I'd warned them about these emails before). I was going to get him to check the URL link in the email, but he'd deleted it in panic after he discovered what had happened. I also tried to get him to check his browsing history but this is pretty tricky to make sense of over the phone.

...Surely the details could have just as easily been obtained by some spyware or something else like that.

Anyhow, to sum up

Is it not up to Natwest to prove that he gave away his details, rather than him to prove he didn't?

Can Natwest use a recorded semi-confession (I think he only said he might have given away bank details), acquired in very questionable circumstances as evidence of responsibility?

Does anyone have any clue about this or have experienced anything similar? I'd be very grateful for any replies

...I think their case is currently on appeal, or something like that, but it's not looking promising.

marjorymidge

i think they are allowed to record phone calls at the fraud section as it says that this may happen in the fine print /that is what they are saying to us is the evidence they need to get out of giving the stolen money back, we have loyal customers of natwest for many years and cannot believe the service they have given us in this situation .

littleorangelobster

In my experience, mentioning the words 'police report' often gets banks falling over backwards in this situation. Tell Natwest you plan on reporting it to the police, and then if that doesn't get them moving, go and file a police report - you may well be surprised at how fast your money suddenly reappears. A crime has taken place - don't let the bank hold you to ransom, regardless of the circumstances.

I hope your parents get their money back!

jonesMUFCforever

The police won't be interested as the procedure for dealing with bank fraud has now changed.
It is up to the bank to bring in the police if it wants to.

Night-owl_6

This story sounds a little odd to say the least.
I would make an appointment and go in to see a bank manager and discuss with them this matter and explain the matter, if you still dont get anywhere then I would highly recommend you seek legal advice from either your local CAB office or FSA.

soolin

I don't know if this is any help but it is a blog that concerns the new rules about customers taking some responsibility for their own online security:

http://technollama.blogspot.com/2008/04/users-liable-for-phishing-and-hacking.html

I don't know though how a bank can prove one way or another that the customer was at fault for using an insecure PC or for falling for a phishimg mail. However I do have concerns that in chip and pin cases (and i know that is not the problem here) the banks quite often assume that customers must be at fault as pin numbers are secure..whether this is the same where online fraud is used and a hacker has access to all the security log in details I don't know.