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Fluoride in tap water
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What do amalgam fillings have to do with fluoride in tap water?0 -
this is pure nonsense.
http://www.ada.org/prof/resources/position...nity_safety.asp
Throughout more than 55 years of research and practical experience, the overwhelming
weight of credible scientific evidence has consistently indicated that fluoridation of
community water supplies is safe. The possibility of any adverse health effects from
continuous low-level consumption of fluoride has been and continues to be extensively
studied. Of the hundreds of credible scientific studies on fluoridation, none has shown
health problems associated with the consumption of optimally fluoridated water.
In 2000, the U.S. Surgeon General David Satcher wrote in his report, Oral Health in
America, “Community water fluoridation is safe and effective in preventing dental caries
in both children and adults. Water fluoridation benefits all residents served by
community water supplies regardless of their social or economic status.” Additionally,
the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the National Institute of Dental and
Craniofacial Research continue to support water fluoridation as a safe method of
preventing tooth decay in people of all ages.
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/fluoride/
Linus Pauling Institute Recommendation
The safety and public health benefits of optimally fluoridated water for prevention of tooth decay in people of all ages have been well-established. The Linus Pauling Institute supports the recommendations of the American Dental Association and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which include optimally fluoridated water as well as the use of fluoride toothpaste, fluoride mouthrinse, fluoride varnish, and when necessary, fluoride supplementation.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5014a1.htm
Fluoride is the only nonprescription toothpaste additive proven to prevent dental caries. When introduced into the mouth, fluoride in toothpaste is taken up directly by dental plaque (132--134) and demineralized enamel (135,136).
The safety of fluoride, which has been documented comprehensively by other scientific and public health organizations (e.g., PHS [8], National Research Council [9], World Health Organization [10], and Institute of Medicine [11])
It has been proven safe time and time again.
http://www.health.qld.gov.au/fluoride/articles.asp
Evidence of the safety of water fluoridation
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The use of fluorides in Australia: guidelines Australian Research Centre for Population Oral Health, Dental School, The University of Adelaide, South Australia; Australian Dental Journal 2006;51:(2):195-199.
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World Health Organization, 1994. Fluorides and oral health: report of a WHO expert committee on oral health status and fluoride use. Geneva: World Health Organization.
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Evans W, Morgan M, Conn J. Dental fluorosis prevalence in Melbourne 12-yearolds is within expected limits. Presented at the IADR ANZ Division 38th Annual Scientific Meeting: Brisbane 27-29 September 1998.
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World Health Organization, 2006. Fluoride in Drinking-water. London: IWA Publishing on behalf of the World Health Organization.
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World Health Organization, World Dental Federation and International Association for Dental Research, 2006. Call to Action to promote dental health by using fluoride.
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National Health and Medical Research Council. Dietary guidelines for all Australians. Canberra: Commonwealth of Australia; 2003.
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Food Standards Australia New Zealand, 2007. Australia New Zealand Food Standards Code. Canberra: Food Standards Australia New Zealand.
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Australia New Zealand Food Authority. Development of joint Australia New Zealand Food Standards as part of the process of review of the Food Standards Code. Infant formula. Preliminary inquiry report. Canberra: Australia New Zealand Food Authority; 1999.
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Silva M, Reynolds EC. Fluoride content of infant formulae in Australia. Australian Dental Journal 1996; 41(1):37-42.
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National Research Council Subcommittee on Health Effects of Ingested Fluoride. Health effects of ingested fluoride. Washington DC: National Research Council; 1993.
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Centres for Disease Control and Prevention. Achievements in public health, 1990-1999: fluoridation of drinking water to prevent dental caries. Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report 1999; 48 (41):933-940.
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Sinclair MI, Kazda H, Cicuttini FM, Fairley CK. Public Health Effects of Water Fluoridation. Melbourne: Department of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine, Monash University & Cooperative Research Centre for Water Quality and Treatment; 1998.
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World Health Organization International Programme on Chemical Safety. Environmental health criteria 227: fluorides. Geneva: World Health Organization; 2002.
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Medical Research Council Working Group. Water fluoridation and health. United Kingdom: Medical Research Council; 2002.
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US Department of Health & Human Services. Fluorides, Hydrogen Fluoride and Fluorine. 2003 [accessed January 2005].
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National Health and Medical Research Council, A Systematic Review of the Efficacy and Safety of Water Fluoridation, Australian Government 2007.
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Choice Australia review: Fluoride: Is fluoride good for your teeth, or a slow poison? Choice, 2008.
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McDonagh M, Whiting P, Wilson P et al. Systematic review of water fluoridation. Br Med J 2000; 321: 855-9.0 -
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He's exactly right.
Amalgam fillings are going to kill everybody, and you need to find your dentist as soon as you possibly can and pay lots of money to have them changed.
I would ring up tomorrow if I were you - you might have developed Oldtimers disease if you wait until next week. If you can't find one - PM me and I'll happily take your money to do it.
I will completely avoid recommending fluoride of any type as well, and might also throw in any other barmy quack idea that has taken your fancy that week. Homeopathic mouthwash maybe? A bit of Botswanan earlobe massage to rid your system of Aspinall? You name it (and pay for it) I'll do it!How to find a dentist.
1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.0 -
Have you actually read any of the studies, rather than simply lifting wodges from an Australian government website because if not, it perhaps makes a bit of a nonsense of your own post?this is pure nonsense....
The American Dental Association ? Yes, they' re about as useful in a balanced debate as our very own BDA.
I’m going to share something amazing with you now - there’s another safe method of preventing tooth decay in people of all ages . It’s called cutting sugary carp out of your diet, laying off the fizzy brown stuff and the blackcurrant juice. There’s a second bit to this method that involves toothpaste, a brush & maybe some floss, and then the third bit is getting along to a dentist a couple of times a year.....Additionally, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research continue to support water fluoridation as a safe method of preventing tooth decay in people of all ages.
They can’t get enough of the stuff can they? Bring on the fluoride lollipops, fluoride ice cream, fluoridated pizza…. “public health benefits for people of all ages" ? Tosh, absolute tosh.The safety and public health benefits of optimally fluoridated water for prevention of tooth decay in people of all ages have been well-established. The Linus Pauling Institute supports the recommendations of the American Dental Association and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which include optimally fluoridated water as well as the use of fluoride toothpaste, fluoride mouthrinse, fluoride varnish, and when necessary, fluoride supplementation.
Jolly good, so carry on with your fluoride toothpaste and leave our water supplies alone.Fluoride is the only nonprescription toothpaste additive proven to prevent dental caries. When introduced into the mouth, fluoride in toothpaste is taken up directly by dental plaque (132--134) and demineralized enamel (135,136).
No, it has not been "proven safe time and time again".The safety of fluoride, which has been documented comprehensively by other scientific and public health organizations (e.g., PHS [8], National Research Council [9], World Health Organization [10], and Institute of Medicine [11])
It has been proven safe time and time again.
As the NRC is listed there as a source in support of water fluoridation let's have some extracts from “Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA’s Standards” (National Research Council, 2006)“More research is needed to clarify fluoride’s biochemical effects on the brain.”
“On the basis of information largely derived from histological, chemical, and molecular studies, it is apparent that fluorides have the ability to interfere with the functions of the brain and the body by direct and indirect means.”“In summary, evidence of several types indicates that fluoride affects normal endocrine function or response; the effects of the fluoride-induced changes vary in degree and kind in different individuals. Fluoride is therefore an endocrine disruptor in the broad sense of altering normal endocrine function or response, although probably not in the sense of mimicking a normal hormone. The mechanisms of action remain to be worked out and appear to include both direct and indirect mechanisms, for example, direct stimulation or inhibition of hormone secretion by interference with second messenger function, indirect stimulation or inhibition of hormone secretion by effects on things such as calcium balance, and inhibition of peripheral enzymes that are necessary for activation of the normal hormone.”
…and so on.
We can also find papers that demonstrate the rise in fluorosis-affected teenagers in the US which present a different picture to the Aussie one you quote here. Now, the IADR itself is interesting - you have to submit your abstract and then you maybe get chance to wave your whole paper in their prestigious halls. Have a look too at their lists of Corporate/Institutional Section Members because there are some familiar names - some huge business corps that flog fluoride toothpastes and mouthwashes, and dental products firms - you know, the ones who provide the stuff for the veneers of the kind needed to cover up fluorosis, then there's the firms that produce choccy bars plus sugar free chewing gum,natch; some that have agro-chemical (ie fertiliser producing ) divisions etc. GSK are there too, of course...............http://www.health.qld.gov.au/fluoride/articles.asp
Evidence of the safety of water fluoridation
Evans W, Morgan M, Conn J. Dental fluorosis prevalence in Melbourne 12-yearolds is within expected limits. Presented at the IADR ANZ Division 38th Annual Scientific Meeting: Brisbane 27-29 September 1998.
Your cut and pasted list of sites had several WHO mentions so here's a couple of quotes from WHO publications:World Health Organization, 2006. Fluoride in Drinking-water. London: IWA Publishing on behalf of the World Health Organization."Fluoride is widely used in dental preparations to combat dental caries, particularly in areas of high sugar intake."Who'd have thought it , eh?.... and..
" Total daily fluoride exposure can vary markedly from one region to another. This will depend on the concentration of fluoride in drinking-water and the amount drunk, levels in foodstuffs and the use of fluoridated dental preparations. In addition, fluoride exposure in some areas is considerably higher as a consequence of a range of practices, including the consumption of brick tea and the cooking and drying of food with high-fluoride coal."and
"fluoride can also have an adverse effect on tooth enamel"Guess that's our old mate f-l-u-o-ro-s-i-s - that evidence of toxicity within the body - and:"Several epidemiological studies are available on the possible association between fluoride in drinking-water and cancer. IPCS (2002) evaluated these studies and concluded that overall the evidence of carcinogenicity in laboratory animals is inconclusive and that the available evidence does not support the hypothesis that fluoride causes cancer in humans; however, the data on bone cancer are relatively limited."Medical Research Council Working Group. Water fluoridation and health. United Kingdom: Medical Research Council; 2002.
Some quotes from this:“Uncertainty is an inherent feature of science and medicine, but this is a concept that seems not to be well understood by the public.”
That will be why the dental community and pseudo scientists keep telling us all it's categorically been "proven to be safe”. No uncertainty whatsoever?
“In order to assess the specific benefits and/or hazards that might arise from the fluoridation of water, it is necessary to take account of the different sources and routes of human exposure to fluoride and to understand the absorption, distribution and metabolism of fluoride in the human body.”But , hey, slap that “one size fits all” dosage in the water supply without accounting for those different sources. Some more for you:
The possibility of an effect on the risk of hip fracture is the most important in public health terms.The available evidence on this suggests no effect, but cannot rule out the possibility of a small percentage change (either an increase or a decrease) in hip fractures. Current estimates of the size of any effect are based on a combination of studies of naturally and artificially fluoridated water. If studies show that the uptake of fluoride from artificially fluoridated water is substantially higher than from naturally fluoridated water ...then it will be necessary to investigate further the relationship of hip fractures specifically to long term consumption of artificially fluoridated water. Research results currently available to not allow a useful estimate to be made of the impact of fluoridation on other bone disorders
Interestingly, the MRC report admitted evidence of a lower standard than that looked at by the York Review and in parts misrepresented what the York Review said.
And finally we're back there again - how many times now? The York Review did *not* say that water fluoridation was “safe and effective”.McDonagh M, Whiting P, Wilson P et al. Systematic review of water fluoridation. Br Med J 2000; 321: 855-9.0 -
That's a big assumption. We haven't been talking about conventional medicine and I haven't presented any opinion on it yet.
Presenting the situation as conventional science vs. alternative science is a misleading angle. It creates the idea of 'alternative science' as if it were a logical or solid concept. It is not.
Proper science excludes nothing reasonable. By reasonable I mean something that can be proven, for example the effectiveness of a medical treatment.
Most of the treatments and medical beliefs that are calling themselves alternative medicine fall well within the scope of regular science, they have just been disproved (or in some cases never believed at all), or their logic found to be ill fitting with modern beliefs, so they have taken up a new name as refuge. Unfortunately, the only refuge from objective and analytical reason, such as that found in good modern scientific studies, is to be less reasonable. It's an alternative, perhaps, but not a good one.
Anyone who suggests an alternative to reason should be considered with suspicion.
In many cases they continue to produce, advertise and sell alternative therapies despite overwhelming evidence against their effectiveness. Finding themselves on the fridge of science and largely disbelieved by the scientific community, they tend to pick fights with them in the hope of discrediting them somehow. Promoting distrust of science in general also helps keep their customers returning to buy their alternatives.
When you read this excellent article. It clearly exposes conventional medicine and what damage it can do. Can you find any alternative science or practice that has caused this much misery and death.
http://www.virginiahopkinstestkits.com/breastcancerratedrop.html0 -
Witch Burning was an 'alternative' science wasn't it?
The Spanish Inquisition?
Hitlers ideas on genetic purity weren't mainstream science.
Female circumcision is an old traditional practice in some cultures.
How are you defining 'alternative'?How to find a dentist.
1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.0 -
Now that's not what he said.Toothsmith wrote: »He's exactly right.
Amalgam fillings are going to kill everybody..
If you want to recommend fluoride to your patients and they want to choose the option to use it few would have a problem with their *personal* choice. What I, and others with similar views to mine, do object to is the idea that because you, and/or perhaps some of your patients, think it is a "good thing" then the rest of us should be obliged to ingest more of it.Toothsmith wrote: »I will completely avoid recommending fluoride of any type as well, ...
Your apparent narrow-mindedness is astonishing TS. Homeopathic mouthwashes are generally based on substances such as soda bic, calendula, aloe vera and witch hazel etc: what, if anything, do you know about the properties of any of those?Toothsmith wrote: ».....and might also throw in any other barmy quack idea that has taken your fancy that week. Homeopathic mouthwash maybe?..
Those standard bottles of fluoride mouthwash( which you probably have a line of on a shelf at your practice reception) contain artificial dyes, artifical sweeteners, stuff like chlorhexidine gluconate ( which can, ironically, stain your teeth), ethanol (ethyl alcohol),hydrogen peroxide and so on. Didn't the Chairman of the ADA's Therapeutics Committee, Prof Michael McCullough, (also Associate Prof of Oral Medicine at the University of Melbourn) , call on the ADA to urgently reassess its seal of approval on mouthwashes containing alcohol btw?
I think many people would have their own views on which one was the most "quacky" solution to choose to be sloshing around your gums on a twice-daily basis.
How much is the fluoridated mouthwash market worth TS? As previously highlighted further back in the thread, the companies that produce the stuff certainly seem able to easily afford to prop up the BDA conferences with a fair bit of sponsorship.
Funny you should say that - this summer’s BDA conference has a session on “Positioning Botox within the Practice”……………….Toothsmith wrote: ».....You name it (and pay for it) I'll do it!..0 -
Toothsmith - it looks like you have reached the bottom of the barrel.Toothsmith wrote: »Witch Burning was an 'alternative' science wasn't it?
The Spanish Inquisition?
Hitlers ideas on genetic purity weren't mainstream science.
Female circumcision is an old traditional practice in some cultures.
How are you defining 'alternative'?
Here's a second reminder:Toothsmith wrote: »I heard a brilliant rule the other day on the radio.
If you are engaged in a debate, then the first person to invoke the name of Hitler, or, the first person to use the phrase "Thin end of the wedge" automatically looses!
I think it should be applied on MSE!
It's pretty clear that Bernard was providing yet another example of the harm caused by "conventional" medical treatment which is initially loudly trumpeted as being safe and subsequently turns out not to be.0 -
Oh sod off - can't you tell when the pi$$ is being taken??
Homeopathy is based on dilutions so infintessimally small that there would be NOTHING but water in a homeopathic mouthwash - if indeed they exist!
My questions on alternative science were to see what Bernard defines as 'alternative' Not what I define it as.How to find a dentist.
1. Get recommendations from friends/family/neighbours/etc.
2. Once you have a short-list, VISIT the practices - dont just phone. Go on the pretext of getting a Practice Leaflet.
3. Assess the helpfulness of the staff and the level of the facilities.
4. Only book initial appointment when you find a place you are happy with.0
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