NPower gas 'sculpting'

meggsy

DirectDebacle wrote: »

My story of one mans' spirited fight, on behalf of thousands of millions of downtrodden customers, with a souless industrial juggernaut was inspiring, stirring and moving. It gives others hope in these bleak times.

I fully expect to be nominated for a CMG in the New Years Honours. Not the Companion of the Order of St Michael and St George. It will be a special one called Calculate My Gas. I shall wear it alongside my Tufty Club badge with pride.

:T :rotfl:

pentreath_2

Congratulations direct debacle! I followed this thread some time ago when the story started, and I'm delighted to see this conclusion. Having had my own run-ins with one or two of these big companies I know how frustrating it can be.

Anyway, I'm also an Npower customer (gas and lecky). Maybe buried in the 39 pages of this thread is advice on what to do now, but I can't find it! Is there a simple step-by-step guide or FAQ so that we can work out if we've been overcharged? I see to remember reading months ago that most Npower customers will have been (I've been with them for years). I'd love to follow your good example.

What bothers me is that even after your victory the pricing policy and the nature of the overcharging is so opaque that very few people will take them to task. If someone can explain the case in a simple and compelling way, perhaps with a draft letter to send Npower, then they will get a lot more complaints.

Cardew

pentreath wrote: »

If someone can explain the case in a simple and compelling way, perhaps with a draft letter to send Npower, then they will get a lot more complaints.

If you read from post 722 to about post 740 there ia a proforma you require and also a 'ready reckoner'. DD's post and The Times.

The issue is very simple. You should have only paid for 4,572 kWh per year at the high Tier1 rate and the rest at Tier 2.

If you have been with NPower for years you will have paid for a lot more than 4,572 per year - probably in the region of 2,000kWh extra

pentreath_2

Cardew wrote: »

If you read from post 722 to about post 740 there ia a proforma you require and also a 'ready reckoner'. DD's post and The Times.

The issue is very simple. You should have only paid for 4,572 kWh per year at the high Tier1 rate and the rest at Tier 2.

If you have been with NPower for years you will have paid for a lot more than 4,572 per year - probably in the region of 2,000kWh extra

Many thanks Cardew, I shall be sitting down later this evening and working it out. Sounds like there could be a few quid in it, as well as the sense of righteousness!

pentreath_2

OK guys, I could be a little dim here, but I have to stick with my earlier post, the system is byzantine in its complexity! I've fought a few battles against intransigent corporations, and I'm no stranger to litigation, but I'm having a lot of trouble getting my head around this, and I don't want to go back through all 39 pages of posts.

I'm sitting with a stack of Npower gas bills retrieved from the loft going back to April 2002 and I've downloaded DD's spreadsheet, his statement of claim and the defence which Npower put in, but I'm still baffled. To be honest I've always found the system of billing for gas something of a mystery in the first place, with the metering in cubic feet, the billing in kWh, and a not-particularly-transparent relationship between the two involving the calorific value of gas and a mysterious correction factor (unlike electricty or water). Anyway, unlike the bank-charges campaign I really don't think Npower have a lot to worry about in terms of floods of consumers recalculating their own bills. Unless the regulator steps in here and orders blanket compensation I think they could get away with this one.

savvy

pentreath wrote: »

Unless the regulator steps in here and orders blanket compensation I think they could get away with this one.

That wouldn't surprise me, NPower gets away with daylight robbery, I rue the day I ever went with them!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Cardew

pentreath wrote: »

Unless the regulator steps in here and orders blanket compensation I think they could get away with this one.

That has indeed been a theme running through this thread.

Npower have paid off everyone who has made a claim/query. They know full well that the numbers of claimants will be in the scores/hundreds rather than the millions and most will settle for £100 or less.

The settlements are without any admission of liability and even paying in full DDs 'massive' claim does not establish a precedent.

My gut feeling is that Ofgem will fudge the issue, as to order NPower to compensate 2 million customers will probably bankrupt the firm - we are talking serious money, hundreds of millions of pounds.

I suspect this is the purpose of the long delay - to let the heat go out of the situation.

DirectDebacle

pentreath wrote: »

I'm sitting with a stack of Npower gas bills retrieved from the loft going back to April 2002 and I've downloaded DD's spreadsheet, his statement of claim and the defence which Npower put in, but I'm still baffled. quote]

Hi pentreath. Don't be baffled. The arguments I used to support my claim and their defence is a bit confusing but don't bother too much with the technicalities. You have bills going back to 2002. Only concern yourself with from 1st April 2003 to 31st March 2008. You are going to have to get your head around on how to work out a bill and also how to adjust your bills so that you are calculating units from 1st April to 31st March. We can do that no problem. That will cover the years for overcharging which should be almost a carbon copy of my claim.

The second part of your claim (as was mine) is about the breach of terms and conditions since April. 2003 as opposed to overcharging of units in a billing period. This is based on argument and interpretation of the T&Cs rather than bill calculation and you will have a forceful case to make.

I have been hoping someone like you would turn up as you will be able to go back to the origins of this scam, as I did. Most claims so far have covered from 1/4/2007. Whatever help and assistance I can give you is there for you, no questions.

I would recommend that the first thing you do, if not already, done is straight away write a letter claiming you have been overcharged since 1st April, 2003 and ask all your gas charged from them up until now, or the date you left them if you have already switched, be recalculated at the prices as at 31/3/2003 and the difference between that amount and what you have actually paid be refunded. Additionally request a refund of overcharged units since 1/4/2003. Give them the problem of working it out to start with. Don't worry about the figures at this stage, we can work them out later. Send recorded delivery.

The reason I urge to do this a.s.a.p. and not sit on it is before you know where you are it will be April 2009 and I think it might become barred under the 6 year time limit. I am not sure on this but better safe than sorry. Just get a claim in and the numbers can be worked out a bit later.

pentreath_2

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Hi pentreath. Don't be baffled. The arguments I used to support my claim and their defence is a bit confusing but don't bother too much with the technicalities. You have bills going back to 2002. Only concern yourself with from 1st April 2003 to 31st March 2008. You are going to have to get your head around on how to work out a bill and also how to adjust your bills so that you are calculating units from 1st April to 31st March. We can do that no problem. That will cover the years for overcharging which should be almost a carbon copy of my claim.

The second part of your claim (as was mine) is about the breach of terms and conditions since April. 2003 as opposed to overcharging of units in a billing period. This is based on argument and interpretation of the T&Cs rather than bill calculation and you will have a forceful case to make.

I have been hoping someone like you would turn up as you will be able to go back to the origins of this scam, as I did. Most claims so far have covered from 1/4/2007. Whatever help and assistance I can give you is there for you, no questions.

I would recommend that the first thing you do, if not already, done is straight away write a letter claiming you have been overcharged since 1st April, 2003 and ask all your gas charged from them up until now, or the date you left them if you have already switched, be recalculated at the prices as at 31/3/2003 and the difference between that amount and what you have actually paid be refunded. Additionally request a refund of overcharged units since 1/4/2003. Give them the problem of working it out to start with. Don't worry about the figures at this stage, we can work them out later. Send recorded delivery.

The reason I urge to do this a.s.a.p. and not sit on it is before you know where you are it will be April 2009 and I think it might become barred under the 6 year time limit. I am not sure on this but better safe than sorry. Just get a claim in and the numbers can be worked out a bit later.

Hi DD,

Many thanks for the words of reassurance. Just before I logged back in and saw your response I was about to summon up strength to get to grips with it, because I guess my claim would be of the same order of magnitude as yours? My meter reading (cubic feet) was 6620 on 30th April 2003. It's now 0394 having been round the clock past the 10,000 mark once.

I'll draft a letter as you suggest tomorrow. One confession: on closer inspection my collection of bills is a bit patchy prior to 2007, I certainly don't have the full set. I guess Npower is in the same position as banks though, in that under the DPA they would have to send me copies on payment of a tenner. Would it be worth doing that also, or is it not necessary to have the full set?

You're suggesting I ask them for two things: recalulation of all my bills since April 2003 based on March 2003 prices. My understanding from your statement of claim is that the reason for that is that Npower didn't properly serve notice of the new two-tier charging structure, is that right? Secondly you say I should request a refund of overcharged units since 1/4/2003. I don't understand how I can ask for both: if (ha!) they did apply the March 2003 prices to my later bills that would compensate me for overcharged units since 1/4/2003 wouldn't it?

I hope you don't mind me playing devil's advocate, but I didn't find the argument in paragraphs 13 to 15 of your statement of claim very convincing (that by failing to explain properly the new charging system in April 2003 Npower didn't successfully change the terms of the contract, so it has to charge all units since then at the old price). But perhaps I haven't understood it correctly.

By the way, I'm still with them, for better or worse.

Cheers!

Pentreath

Cardew

pentreath wrote: »

I hope you don't mind me playing devil's advocate, but I didn't find the argument in paragraphs 13 to 15 of your statement of claim very convincing (that by failing to explain properly the new charging system in April 2003 Npower didn't successfully change the terms of the contract, so it has to charge all units since then at the old price). But perhaps I haven't understood it correctly.

I am sure DD will post a full reply, but isn't the point of the excercise that NPower have 2 choices; to defend the claims or settle out of court. They chose the latter option with DD.

It is a 2 pronged attack.

The 'backdate to 2003' element depends on the interpretation of regulations on the notification of change in terms and conditions, and is potentially the more serious issue; although will only affect those who were a NPower at the time of the change.

However the issue of charging for more than 4,572 kWh Tier 1 units in a 12 month period is absolutely clear cut - and NPower do not deny that fact.