NPower gas 'sculpting'

BenNevis

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Because they changed the way the P.B. was to be applied. Thus a new 'tariff year' commenced.

Thanks very much DirectDebacle for your explanation in post 1564. I follow your logic so far, no problem but on 1/11/07 Npower tweaked its system for the 2nd time in 2007 and stated that this again began a new tariff year and that the count of 4572 started again.

Seems to me that if you were to accept this 2nd change started a new tariff year then the count of 4572 started again as well. I assume that you don’t accept that a new tariff year started on 1/11/07 because if you do then Npower are of scott free aren’t they?

If you accept the tariff year of 1/5/07 I’d have thought that you would have to accept the other of 1/11/07 so if you don’t mind me asking how do you shoot down the 2nd one down in flames while accepting the 1st?

DirectDebacle

BenNevis wrote: »

Thanks very much DirectDebacle for your explanation in post 1564. I follow your logic so far....

Clearly you don't. Even a fool would not construe from that post I accepted the validity of the 'tariff year'.

I do not think you are a fool but your question is irrelevant.

retired_cricketer

DirectDebacle wrote: »

I submitted my enquiry form a couple of weeks ago and received an auto response that it could take up to 28 days for an answer.

As far as I can tell from MSE posts, about 20.

They did say that all overcharged customers will have received their payments by the end of November, so do appear to be on target.:D

I have received a letter from npower now (without me chasing it) and it just states (along with a lot of waffle to confuse people) a figure that I am due.According to my calculations,they are offering just over half of what's due.

I find it incredible, but not surprising, that there is no calculation given.The attached leaflet says "..if you would like more details about how we worked out your payment,please call us..". So I did.

The npower lady asked me if I understood why a payment was due and before I could answer she said "it's because we have overcharged you" - that must be the first time they have admitted that. I then asked how the calculation was made and she started to explain it. I stopped her and said that I would like it in writing. She said it would take several weeks and I said that's OK please send it.

She then advised me to go to the Post Office to collect the money on the letter now. I said I would wait until I'd received the calculation.

It appears to me that they are still trying to minimize the actual payments due - by undercalculating,by making it confusing so that just about everyone will accept it because they don't understand it,by not providing a calculation and then taking a long time to send it so that people give up and by advising you to collect from the Post Office straight away, presumably in "full and final settlement" so that they don't accept a further claim for any undercalculation. Those are 4 methods that I can see and no doubt there are others.......

sarahb

I got my letter today - NPower have calculated my claim at £41.44. Although I've known about the issue for some time I haven't yet got around to calculating what I think they owe me.

Before I go to all the trouble of digging out my old bills, may I ask if anyone has yet successfully challenged the amount on the letter ?

notbritishgas

Also received my letter today. When I rang them to confirm I was due a payment they said it would be £50.40 plus VAT and interest.
The payment is actually £56.47, if we take VAT on £50.40 to be £2.50 that makes £52.90 so the interest comes to £3.57 over 3 years. I make this just over 2%.

Helen_Lianos

Just came to this forum so forgive me if this has already been discussed -- but why can't they just deduct the payment from my bill?

I just hauled myself down to the post office (no easy task now that the local one has been closed) to discover that I'd misread the letter and had to have two forms of ID rather than one.

I suspect loads of people will not notice or not get around to cashing in this refund. Why on earth can't they just deduct it from my bill? Obviously they'd need to do it differently for people who are no longer customers, but the vast majority of us probably still are.

My suspicious mind wonders if by doing it this way (and there's a time limit!), lots of the refunds due will never be claimed.

notbritishgas

Helen_Lianos wrote: »

Just came to this forum so forgive me if this has already been discussed -- but why can't they just deduct the payment from my bill?

I just hauled myself down to the post office (no easy task now that the local one has been closed) to discover that I'd misread the letter and had to have two forms of ID rather than one.

I suspect loads of people will not notice or not get around to cashing in this refund. Why on earth can't they just deduct it from my bill? Obviously they'd need to do it differently for people who are no longer customers, but the vast majority of us probably still are.

My suspicious mind wonders if by doing it this way (and there's a time limit!), lots of the refunds due will never be claimed.

After the struggle that was needed to get Npower to agree to this refund I would crawl to the Post Office on my hands and knees pushing a pea with my nose.

DirectDebacle

sarahb wrote: »

Before I go to all the trouble of digging out my old bills, may I ask if anyone has yet successfully challenged the amount on the letter ?

If anyone has it is a bit too soon to know the result. npower could spin that out for months.

The payment is actually £56.47, if we take VAT on £50.40 to be £2.50 that makes £52.90 so the interest comes to £3.57 over 3 years. I make this just over 2%.

I was given to understand the interest rate they were using was 6.66%

This is net as they are paying the tax. Currently the court rate applied to civil debt is 8% gross = 6.66% less tax.

Appears they are applying 1 yrs of net interest to the payments.

The excess payments they received should have worked themselves through by 31/10/08. npower claim these came to £63m. No doubt someone can work out whether or not they are profiting by their method of applying the interest payments.

Terrylw1

Helen_Lianos wrote: »

Just came to this forum so forgive me if this has already been discussed -- but why can't they just deduct the payment from my bill?

I just hauled myself down to the post office (no easy task now that the local one has been closed) to discover that I'd misread the letter and had to have two forms of ID rather than one.

I suspect loads of people will not notice or not get around to cashing in this refund. Why on earth can't they just deduct it from my bill? Obviously they'd need to do it differently for people who are no longer customers, but the vast majority of us probably still are.

My suspicious mind wonders if by doing it this way (and there's a time limit!), lots of the refunds due will never be claimed.

There is no real reason why they can't do it. It could cause DD's to need re-assessing and customers in credit to call for it anyway.

My thoughts on this are that they are doing this all outside of the billing system because it's easier for them. A lot of these customers will have left or there may have been change of occupancies. so, easier to get a load of bill data and whack it into a spreadsheet and not get their IT dept to spend additional money trying to get all this back on the accounts.

I'm betting that in 12 months there will be unclaimed money. I'm also betting that Npower won't report that.

Also, until your bill catches up, do you really want Npower benefitting from £70m they can invest?

BenNevis

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Even a fool would not construe from that post I accepted the validity of the 'tariff year'.

Ok you’ve now made it clear that you don’t consider the tariff year to be valid. I wonder why I ever thought you did but perhaps it was because in post 1556 you wrote

You need to appreciate that the price change on 1/5/07 caused a new P.B. of 4572 per annum to commence

Or perhaps it was because in post 1564 when you answered my question which was, “Are you saying it [the tariff year] was real…?” you wrote

Yes

and in the same post you say

On the basis of the evidence available, I have therefore concluded that the 'tariff year' was 'real', as you put it

You wrote all of those words matey and I took them at face value. Now you’re saying you never accepted the tariff year. You’re a bit like Ofgem aren’t you. You say whatever suits you at the time and now you’ve the cheek to criticise me for believing what you wrote.

Either you accept the tariff year or you don’t. If you accept it then my post 1566 raises a question which you can’t answer and your logic collapses like a house of cards.

Or you can claim that the tariff year was a fake idea. The trouble here is that you’re using this fake idea to back up your own whacky invention of the same year start for all claims. You then pompously hold this out as superior to that negotiated by Consumer Focus but when someone comes along and shows your logic is flawed you try and bluff your way out instead of taking it on board and dealing with it.

You can’t use fake ideas to support your own flawed logic matey. Get real.