NPower gas 'sculpting'

DirectDebacle

Sterling wrote: »

If you feel you might be in this second group, firstly remember the period that you were with npower must include either 1st May 2007 or 1st November 2007 (or both) for the excess charging to have occurred.

In addition to the above remember the first 'sculpt' occurred in the year 1/4/04-31/3/05. On 1/10/04 npower changed from a 'flat' Primary Block rate (381 per month) to a seasonally weighted rate. This would have resulted in a maximum overcharge on the high rate units of 911.

So anyone reading this thread who was an npower customer during that period will also have a claim.

The interesting bit is that although my claim, which was only slightly more than Sterlings, was over a much longer period of time and the 'costs' element was a mere £75.00. My claim was based on a breach of contract and a recalculation of my bills from 1/4/03 to the time I left npower in 08/08. The bulk of my claim was therefore made up of recalculating charges at the rate applicable on 31/3/03.

So if there is some lucky and brave person out there who was with npower prior to around July 2004 and stayed with them until around April 2008 (there must be hundreds at least) then by combining Sterlings hourly expenses rate with a breach of contract claim the £2k barrier could be easily broken, which would be nice.

Any takers?

donnajunkie

Sterling wrote: »

As a matter of interest, have you posted on this thread because you think you may also have a sculpting claim?

i didnt want to start a new thread and i didnt notice any other thread more suitable. it does feel like we are being conned as our payments continually go up. in the past year or two they started at £28, then went to £29, then went to £33, then went to £38 and are now £45. they are based on estimated usage over the next 6 months i think. why cant they wait and see what we use and then put the payments up accordingly and if necessary.

DirectDebacle

donnajunkie wrote: »

i didnt want to start a new thread and i didnt notice any other thread more suitable. it does feel like we are being conned as our payments continually go up. in the past year or two they started at £28, then went to £29, then went to £33, then went to £38 and are now £45. they are based on estimated usage over the next 6 months i think. why cant they wait and see what we use and then put the payments up accordingly and if necessary.

Hi Donna,

To check if your DD is about right you need to have your bills. If you don't have a full set then you need one that is at least a year old and is a reading not an estimate.

For example if you have one 18 months old and no others then take the start reading of your meter from that bill and deduct from what the meter is reading now. Then work out how many kWh this equates to. The bill tells you how to make this calculation. You now know how many kWh of gas or electricity (same method for either fuel) you have used over 18 months. Divide by 18 to give you an average usage per month. Do this for each fuel if you are dual fuel. Now multiply this monthly average of kWh for each fuel by the price you pay for that fuel.

Add the two together and add VAT (multiply by 1.05). This figure should be about what you ought to be paying to achieve a zero balance after 12 months assuming prices and usage remain constant.

Your earlier post stated that the prices you were paying were fortnightly but DD are usually monthly. So the £28.00 you were paying a couple of years ago was around £56.00 per month? Bear in mind that since January 08 npower have increased prices 40% or so. With VAT that would make a price adjusted DD of £82 per month and you are paying £90.00. A bit over but it is better to finish your DD year a little in credit rather than in debit.

donnajunkie

we pay with a payment card fortnightly at a paypoint.

Sterling

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling
If you feel you might be in this second group, firstly remember the period that you were with npower must include either 1st May 2007 or 1st November 2007 (or both) for the excess charging to have occurred.

In addition to the above remember the first 'sculpt' occurred in the year 1/4/04-31/3/05. On 1/10/04 npower changed from a 'flat' Primary Block rate (381 per month) to a seasonally weighted rate. This would have resulted in a maximum overcharge on the high rate units of 911

I did in fact mention npower’s October 2004 sculpting change in my post #1327, but you are right to mention it again. In my opinion it forms part of a clear pattern of deception by npower; and it’s an event that npower would prefer customers didn’t know about. I believe it was also a flagrant breach of section 44(6) of the conditions of the energy suppliers’ licence.

If memory serves me correctly, npower deliberately mislead you on this very point during your own county court claim, and then only came clean after your initial court particulars of claim had been filed by you.

I imagine the excess figure of 911 high tier units you mention relates to a year (“twelve continuous months”) beginning on 1st April 2004. However, for a year beginning one month later on 1st May 2004, the number of kWh’s that would have been billed by npower at the high tier rate, in excess of the stated maximum of 4572, increases to 977.

Of course, here we are looking at events that go back quite a way, but again it shows to everyone the wisdom of keeping all utility bills on file, either in paper or digital form; and saves the hassle of getting copies from npower after such a long time.

Incidentally, and for completeness perhaps I should mention two other things.

Firstly, as per the thrust of my post #1337, customers who were with npower for a period of less than a year and which included 1st October 2004 might also have a claim. For example a customer staying with npower for only eleven months beginning on 1st June 2004 could still have been billed for 596 too many kWh’s at the high tier rate.

Secondly, and at the risk of stating the obvious, any of the calculations for overcharging as mentioned here and in my previous posts assume that the customer has actually used in kWh’s at least 4572 plus the quoted excess. Clearly, this will not necessarily be the case for very low users of gas.

Sterling

donnajunkie wrote: »

i didnt want to start a new thread and i didnt notice any other thread more suitable

I truly sympathise with what you say. However, the problem is that if we start looking on this thread at problems other than npower’s gas sculpting scams (and Ofgem’s poor performance in safeguarding affected customers), we will quickly find this thread inundated with requests for help on a wide range of complaints and problems. That in turn will simply dilute the general thrust and purpose of this specialist thread.

Starting a new thread is quite easy and, as I mentioned recently in a previous post, there are a goodly number of people out there willing to help, who together clearly possess a formidable range of general and expert knowledge and who have given very impressive advice in the past.

I therefore have no hesitation in repeating my suggestion that you (a) search past threads for anyone having raised a similar question to yours (and I think you will find that there have been many); and (b) if necessary start a new thread; which will also have the added advantage I’m sure of being more readily seen by the people who I believe can best help you.

Perhaps I can add for the record that I do not altogether agree with the advice that DD has given to you. Unless your gas consumption is pretty even throughout the year (which is unlikely), I do not recommend looking at your gas consumption for any other period than a year or a number of complete years.

I say that because if you take a period of 18 months, as DD did in his example, you could perhaps be taking two winters into your reckoning, and this will give a monthly (or fortnightly) payment figure that is higher than necessary. I believe that at least one poster has complained that this is exactly what npower did already (by incorporating two winters’ high usage and just one summer) in calculating that customer’s monthly payments. It may even have been what has happened in your case.

DirectDebacle

The main focus of attention has been the period May 2007-April 2008 for overcharging claims. To a lesser extent April 2004-March 2005 has featured.

It is feasible that periods outside of these dates can also be cited as occasions when consumers were overcharged and could give rise to many more claims.

The key to this is npowers own definition of a 'tariff year' and using that to your advantage. I can best illustrate this by applying it to my own claim and referring to evidence npower submitted to the County Court and also separate written evidence they supplied to Ofgem during their enquiry.

In both their evidence submitted to the Court and Ofgem npower state that when there is a change between methods of charging for the Primary Block (4572kWh per annum) units then they restart the 'tariff year' on the date such change is made.

In their statement of defence in my case they quote the following (paraphrased):

'From 1/4/2003-30/9/2004 (18 months) he received gas at a flat charging rate. At the rate of 4572 units per annum the maximum quantity we were entitled to charge for these 18 months was 6858 (being 18/12*4572) and he was only charged for 6855 units.'

This is then repeated for the period 1/10/2004-30/09/2006 (24 months) and they state, 'From 1/10/2004 to 30/09/2006 a new Cycle (tariff year0 commenced as he received his gas under a seasonally weighted charging structure instead of a Flat charging structure. The maximum quantity of Primary Block units we were entitled to charge was 9144 (being 24/12*4572). We only charged 9143 at the Primary Block rate.'

'From 1/10/2006-30/04/2007 we continued to charge under a seasonally adjusted charging structure and for these 7 months we were entitled to charge 3721 units at the Primary Block rate.'

Note they do not use the previous calculation method for this period. Had they done so it would have been 7/12*4572= 2667 and wouldn't fit with what they actually charged me which was 3633. Further as there was no change to the charging method there is no reason why this last period should be treated as a separate 'tariff year'. They deliberately deviated from their own definiton for this period as it didn't fit the figures.

From 1/10/2004-30/4/2007 (31 months) they should have stated they were entitled to charge 31/12*4572= 11810. I was actually charged 12776 for this period. Probably explains why they altered the calculation method.

This explanation of methods of calculation should apply to all other two tier customers.

Now as the 4572 maximum is contracted for a year it matters not how long that year is as long as the amount charged in a year does not exceed 4572.

So it can be argued that the periods npower quote as 'tariff years' should not exceed 4572. It can then be seen that by using their own definition they have overcharged for every 'tariff year' from 1/4/2003-30/4/2007.

For example someone who joined npower on 1/10/2004 and left on 30/09/06. If they examined their bills they would find that their high rate units would (probably) not exceed 9144 (4572*2) and would appear to be correct. But according to npowers evidence to Ofgem, the Court and myself it represents an overcharge of 4572kWh as for this 24 month year they would not be entitled to charge more than the maximum 4572.

npower cannot have it both ways. The Primary Block has to be charged over a year, either a calendar year or a 'tariff year' not a convenient mix.

Neither can we have it both ways. As my case spilled over in to the post 30/4/2007 era then it would not have been practicable to use the above argument. This is because the 'tariff years' 30/4/2007-31/10/2007 and 1/11/2007-28/8/2008 would not have produced an overcharge in either of those periods. That is why my claim used 1st April-31st March as the periods for calculating a year.

However I am sure that for customers who were with npower up to 30/4/2007 and thought they had not been overcharged, may well find that they were if they applied npowers definition of a year to them.

I see no conflict with this. For those who left npower before 1/5/2007 I see no reason why the 'tariff year' should not be accepted as it will produce overcharging for many customers. If npower choose to maintain the preposterous 'tariff year' defence then they cannot object if it backfires on them.

For those with claims purely post 30/4/2007 then the calendar year as explained in depth on this thread is the way to go. I would suggest that for those like me that have a claim spanning the two periods pre and post 30/4/2007 then use a calendar year throughout.

janequeenie

Sterling wrote: »

Hi Janequeenie

Your first post (#1329) above indicates that you are a duel fuel customer of npower’s; and your second post (#1339) indicates that you have been with npower on two tier tariffs since sometime in 2007.

The first requirement for you to have a gas sculpting claim against npower (the subject of this thread) is that you need to have commenced taking your gas from npower prior to November 2007. Can you remember if this is the case? If it was prior to November 2007, can you remember roughly when? If you pay by monthly direct debit your bank statements may help to jog your memory.

i have been a customer since october 2006 and have to date only recieved copy bills from dec 2007 from n power.as i say they are making life a little difficult in providing these and are requesting i make a data protection request for all info they hold on me along with a £10 payment.
does anyone know what the two tier limits are for the electricity.

DirectDebacle

janequeenie wrote: »

i have been a customer since october 2006 and have to date only recieved copy bills from dec 2007 from n power.as i say they are making life a little difficult in providing these and are requesting i make a data protection request for all info they hold on me along with a £10 payment.
does anyone know what the two tier limits are for the electricity.

Hi,

Go here for current (pun intended) electricity and gas prices.

http://npower.com/web/At_home/customer_service/yourquestionsanswered/faq_understanding_my_prices

You will see high rate electricity is charged at 2 units per day. I have never had my electricity from npower but would think that this rate of units has not changed in a good while.

As far as previous bills go I would stump up the £10 and obtain them. If your gas usage is sufficient then you will most likely have a claim far in excess of this and in any event you can add the £10 fee to it. If you don't have a claim then you still have the benefit of all your bills which can be useful when switching suppliers or checking DD payments have been calculated on the correct usage.

Capistan

DirectDebacle wrote: »

I had a useful and interesting meeting with the reporter from The Times last week. He is preparing another article on npower/Ofgem which he hopes to have published on 31st. He also met with Simon Hughes MP the Lib. Dem. spokesperson on energy. He expressed a willingnesss to help in anyway he could, eg. questions to Ofgem, npower, Energy Select Commitee etc. The fight for justice for consumers goes on and not just on this one front. Other powers are at work and hopefully soon, this gross mis-treatment of customers will be fully exposed.

Interesting I just been looking at new gas tarrifs and I can see the kind of corrupt practises OFGEM apparently allows the suppliers to write into their contracts, for example EDF (IIRC) and a number of other seem to have contracts where basically you sign up to buy gas at an unknown price for an indefinate period of time, (online version 5, I beleive).

In my opinion OFGEM are crooks colluding with the energy companies to rip-pff the consumer, mind you when you see the riotten bunch of expense fidling MP's we have that's not surprise. The second chamber is full of crooks to.