NPower gas 'sculpting'

Sterling

tracyjayne wrote: »

I changed to N power in oct of last year, i've just had my 1st 6 monthly bill and it was ......£780

This is nearly 3 times what i was paying at southern electric but they are stating that the bill is correct

I assume this is your gas bill, so I wonder if your meter measures in cubic feet (100’s) and if npower wrongly have it down as metric. I have seen threads on this forum where this has happened, and seems to result in a bill around three times larger than it should be.

If you have not done so already, I would suggest you check your meter and your bill - both should be measuring in the same units. If not, this could be the cause of the problem.

Upwind

DD/Sterling

Thanks guys - your replies to my PM's were very knowledgeable and helpful. I have replied with further PM's and will keep you updated on my progress.

Grumpy4u

Many thanks yet again to DD and Sterling for their continued support and encouragement.
Regarding the three options mentioned by DD, the first (do nothing) is very attractive as I am heartily sick of having this at the back of my mind for so long (but that would be letting the side down); the second (Ombudsman) is probably a non-starter for the reasons given and the third is the one I should probably follow. One possible obstacle to this (advice please) is that in my original approach I had done only a very rough approximate calculation of what I felt I had been overcharged. This may turn out to be wildly incorrect so I need to do a detailed calculation and this is where I call yet again for help.
As I have all my bills going back into the dark ages, I can provide details for the year Feb 07 to Feb 08 which is what I based by estimates on. If some kind person could run the figures through his spreadsheet we might be on a firmer footing for taking this forward.
The unjustness of this whole affair makes my blood boil. It would be nice to know how many npower customers have been encouraged by this forum to tackle the faceless mandarins…

As Mick said…”don’t let the b*****s grind you down”!

DirectDebacle

Grumpy4u wrote: »

As I have all my bills going back into the dark ages, I can provide details for the year Feb 07 to Feb 08 which is what I based by estimates on. If some kind person could run the figures through his spreadsheet we might be on a firmer footing for taking this forward.

How far back do your bills go?

Try to work out the amount for Feb 07 - Jan 08 (April-Mar is preferable) using Sterlings Ready Reckoner in the How To thread. There are worked examples to follow. Post the bill details and your calcs on here and they can be checked. If you have problems in performing the calculations put the bill details on here and they can be gone through with you.

Any other help/advice that can be given, will be. Good luck.

Grumpy4u

Hi DD,

I have bills from 1998 so if the 2007-08 bills don’t show I have been grossly overcharged we can go back to 2003…

I looked at the worked examples etc that you mentioned but failed to get my little grey cells working efficiently. I have been on a monthly direct debit since Aug 06 and the dates of my various bills are quite confusing – not to mention npower’s method of calculating the monthly amounts!

Here are the details for Feb 07:

01/10/06 to 05/02/07 1996 @ 4.412 4683 @ 2.492
05/02/07 to 29/04/07 1590 @ 4.412 1859 @ 2.492
30/04/07 to 30/07/07 1180 @ 4.412 203 @ 1.915
30/07/07 to 30/09/07* 737 @ 4.412 360 @ 1.915
30/09/07* to 04/01/08* 2259 @ 4.412 3656 @ 1.915
04/01/08* to 05/02/08 769 @ 6.154 1418 @ 1.990
05/02/08 to 18/06/08 1497 @ 6.154 3860 @1.990

* indicates estimated bill.

I assume that their estimated bills were calculated by linear interpolation but cannot avoid the suspicion that they will have “adjusted” the figures to as to maximise the amount payable – or am I just too grumpy?

Is there light at the end of this tunnel??

DirectDebacle

Grumpy4u wrote: »

Hi DD,

I have bills from 1998 so if the 2007-08 bills don’t show I have been grossly overcharged we can go back to 2003…


Here are the details for Feb 07:

01/10/06 to 05/02/07 1996 @ 4.412 4683 @ 2.492
05/02/07 to 29/04/07 1590 @ 4.412 1859 @ 2.492
30/04/07 to 30/07/07 1180 @ 4.412 203 @ 1.915
30/07/07 to 30/09/07* 737 @ 4.412 360 @ 1.915
30/09/07* to 04/01/08* 2259 @ 4.412 3656 @ 1.915
04/01/08* to 05/02/08 769 @ 6.154 1418 @ 1.990
05/02/08 to 18/06/08 1497 @ 6.154 3860 @1.990

* indicates estimated bill.

So using your bills lets calculate the amount of high rate units you should have been charged for for the year 1/4/2007-31/3/2008.

You don't need a spreadsheet. A calculator and a print out of the ready reckoner will do just as well.

First we need to calculate the amount of high units used from 1/4/2007-29/4/2007.

Looking at the ready reckoner we can see that April 2007 was charged at the monthly rate of 448 or 14.93kWh per day.

Therefore 1st-29th April is 29 days @14.93 = 432.97. kWh are always rounded to the nearest whole no. = 433kWh

Now calculate the kWh that should have been charged for the period 5/2/08-31/3/08

There were 29 days in Feb 2008. Therefore you need to calculate how many units should have been charged over 24 days in February. Referring to the ready reckoner we can see that the daily rate for Feb 2008 is 30.41.

24*30.41 = (760.34) 760kWh.

The month of March is 272kWh.

Total for 5/2/08-31/3/08 = 1032kWh

Simply add the first and last periods you worked out to what is shown on the other bills you received:

433
1180
737
2259
769
1032

Total 6410kwh at the high rate.

Maximum allowed to charge for per annum = 4572

Units overcharged = 1838.

To work out the cost of these overcharged units.

There was a price increase on 4/1/08. You were charged for 1801kWh from 4/1/08-31/3/08 (769+1032)

Therefore 37kWh were charged at the previous price.

Remember these are units that were charged at the high rate but should have been charged at the lower rate. So to work out the money you need to calculate what you were actually charged for those units at the relevant high rate and then calculate those same units at the relevant low rate. Subtract the latter from the former and add 5% VAT. That is the amount you have been overcharged. (I have done this but left it for you to have a go yourself)

Have a go at calculating what npower have charged for all your gas since 1/4/2003 (simply add up all the bills you received) and then calculate what it would have cost at the price for gas on 31/3/2003. Just add all the kWh used over the period and multiply by the single rate for gas and then add the Standing Charge at whatever the price in pence was per day over the 1800 or so days of the period. That would give you an idea of a Stage 2 claim which I successfully pursued and which Mick Steel is embarking upon.

Grumpy4u

Hi DD,

You are very kind and extraordinarily patient with people like me and I’m sure we are all very grateful. I needed to read your latest a few times and look back at Sterling’s tables A and B before the penny began to drop. So here are my calculations:

433 charged at 4.412 instead of 2.492 ………………so an overcharge of £8.31
1180 + 737 + 2259 charged at 4.412 instead of 1.915 so an overcharge of £104.27
769 + 1032 charged at 6.154 instead of 1.990 ……….so an overcharge of £74.99

37 charged at 4.412 instead of 1.915 …………………so an overcharge of £0.92.

That makes a grand total (including 5%) of £ 197.92.

If this is right then its well over my original simple-minded guestimate!

Let me know if I’m on the right track and thanks again.

DirectDebacle

Grumpy4u wrote: »

If this is right then its well over my original simple-minded guestimate!

Let me know if I’m on the right track and thanks again.

Almost on the right track.

Not all of your high rate units were charged at the wrong rate, only the amount that exceeded the 4572 per annum maximum.

1838kWh were charged to you at the high rate which should have been charged at the low rate. 1801 of these were charged at the price effective from 4/1/08 and 37 at the previous price.

The amount you were overcharged is the difference between these prices.

1801 @ 6.154 = £110.83
1801 @ 1.990 = £35.83

Amount overcharged £75.00

37 @ 4.412 = £1.63
37 @ 1.915 = £0.71

Amount overcharged = £0.92

Total overcharged = £75.92

plus VAT (75.92*1.05) = £79.71

You were not charged for an incorrect amount of gas. You were charged for the gas you used but some of it (1838kWh) were charged at the incorrect rate ie the higher rate and not the lower rate. Therefore the claim is for the difference of what you were charged less the amount you should have been charged for those 1838 units.

Grumpy4u

OK nearly right. I had overlooked the original 4572 units at the "correct" price. But they still owe me £80 plus my time.
I will send you a pm regarding the next step.
Thanks again.

Sterling

Just to recap:

Inspired by DD’s research mentioned in an earlier post that revealed that any of us could file a formal complaint against Ofgem as regards its so-called investigation into npower’s gas sculpting changes etc, I decided to have a go. It was delivered to Ofgem on 29th April.

I put it on a holding thread (“npower, Ofgem & Consumer Focus") I used on a previous occasion. This is because it is rather a long document – and would take up too much space here. So long in fact, that it was spread over eight posts, beginning at post #14

I eventually received a response on behalf of Ofgem, dated 26th May.

Of course it comes as no particular surprise that Ofgem does not think it has done anything wrong.However, I believe the response by Ofgem to my complaint against it was as vague and ambiguous as anyone could make it, because Ofgem is obviously on weak ground.

I would have thought that if Ofgem had been on stronger ground its letter would have blown me away completely.

Instead, the letter (which took nearly a month to issue) skirts round practically all of my points (and their combined weight) by the use of general dismissals lacking any genuine justification. So I have sent a letter asking various questions by way of clarification of Ofgem’s letter.

In the interests of transparency, I have placed a transcript of Ofgem’s letter (and mine) on the same holding thread as mentioned above, and which can be accessed by clicking on the following quote chevron. I’m afraid that parts of Ofgem’s letter may induce an uncontrollable desire to fall asleep, but if you can skip lightly over those bits you will arrive at my letter in response, which I hope is a better read.

Sterling wrote: »

In response to my complaint against Ofgem dated 28th April 2009