NPower gas 'sculpting'

Upwind

I have recently been following this (and similar) threads and wondered if one of the good souls on here could answer some of my questions.

I became an NPower ‘customer’ back in May 2005 and I have retained all my bills. I worked out (using Sterling’s excellent table) the high tier/primary units that I was charged from May 06 through to the present day – this being the start time of the figures in Sterling’s table.

My question are;

When did NPower’s re-sculpting commence and was this date before the start of the figures in Sterling’s table? If so, do I need to start my workings prior to this date and, if so, does anybody have the extended Month and Day figures prior this date?
I noticed also DirectDebacle (may I call you DD?) excellent draft letter at #995. Can I enquire, did you forward your workings to NPower with your letter or did you just send the letter? Also, what address did you forward it to?

Appreciate any help that you can give. Thanks

DirectDebacle

Mick_Steel wrote: »

I have recently been following this (and similar) threads and wondered if one of the good souls on here could answer some of my questions.

Welcome to the thread. No harm in repeating the brief sculpting history.

As far as we can tell seasonally adjusted weighting (sculpting) was introduced 1/4/2003. Two profiles were used. A flat rate @381kWh per month and a sculpted profile (different amounts each month). Until 30/9/2004 the flat rate was used. From 1/10/2004-30/4/2007 the sculpted profile was used. From 1/5/2007-31/10/2007 a flat rate was used and from 1/11/2007 to present a more aggressive sculpted profile was used.

The letter you refer to was an example of what I thought might be appropriate for another posters claim, not mine.

If you have a read through the How to Thread there is more information there including an address in Gateshead (Executive Complaints Team at the bottom of a letter they wrote to me) to send a letter of claim.

It doesn't really matter whether you include your calculations or not. Personally I would not include them at this stage. You could include in your letter that if they dispute your claim then ask them to supply their calculations as to how they have arrived at the Primary Block kWh they have charged you on your bills. Now that would be interesting reading for you.

It is not likely that you were overcharged until after 1/4/07. The sculpted profile shown in the ready reckoner is the same profile that was in use from 1/10/2004-30/4/2007.

As you have all of your bills it is worth spending the extra time checking them all, just to make sure. If you are considering a Stage 2 claim then you will need to do this in any event.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Upwind

DD

Firstly, thanks for your replay and help to date...............

Can I just check what you mean by the following:

"It is not likely that you were overcharged until after 1/4/07. The sculpted profile shown in the ready reckoner is the same profile that was in use from 1/10/2004-30/4/2007"

If I am correct, do you mean that the Monthly figures for Oct 04 onwards would be:

334 - Oct 04
471 - Nov
471 - Dec
631 - Jan 05
622 - Feb
558 - Mar
448 - Apr
325 - May
192 - Jun
110 - Jul
110 - Aug
192 - Sep.......... and so on, up to May 06 when Sterling's figures kick in.

Also, I have not 'exactly' worked out an actual figure in £ that I think they owe me - I could probably make a rough estimate based on the fact that during the period 01 Apr 07 - 31 Mar 08 I was charged 6534 Primary Block units and ask them to check my entire cotract period to ensure it is correct? In essence, is it essential that I come up with a figure, or can I leave it to them to come up with an amount? Also what is a reasonable add-on for expenses, time etc?

As for a Stage 2 claim, having read through the 'how to' guide, it would appear that this is a lot more in depth and in essence is arguing that NPower has not adhered to it's own Terms and Conditions and is therefore in breach of contract since April 2003? It is a pity that there was not a body (such as Ofgen or energywatch!) who you could appraoch to help with the workings out, as for many (probably including me!) this is a daunting task. I have already spent a fair amount of time trying to get to the Stage 1 phase without even considering Stage 2!

I'd be greatful of your considered advice on the above queries

Thanks DD

DirectDebacle

Mick_Steel wrote: »

DD



Can I just check what you mean by the following:

"It is not likely that you were overcharged until after 1/4/07. The sculpted profile shown in the ready reckoner is the same profile that was in use from 1/10/2004-30/4/2007"

If I am correct, do you mean that the Monthly figures for Oct 04 onwards would be:

334 - Oct 04
471 - Nov
471 - Dec

Also, I have not 'exactly' worked out an actual figure in £ that I think they owe me - I could probably make a rough estimate based on the fact that during the period 01 Apr 07 - 31 Mar 08 I was charged 6534 Primary Block units and ask them to check my entire cotract period to ensure it is correct? In essence, is it essential that I come up with a figure, or can I leave it to them to come up with an amount? Also what is a reasonable add-on for expenses, time etc?

As for a Stage 2 claim, having read through the 'how to' guide, it would appear that this is a lot more in depth and in essence is arguing that NPower has not adhered to it's own Terms and Conditions and is therefore in breach of contract since April 2003?

I'd be greatful of your considered advice on the above queries

Thanks DD

I think you have made a typo with Dec. It should be 581. You are correct that it was the same profile as in Sterlings ready reckoner.

You need to work out an actual figure that you are going to claim. You do have all your bills and with the help available on here, should you need it, it won't be a problem. Do not leave it up to npower to give you an amount. You tell them what they owe you. If they wish to dispute it then it is up to them to show what they owe you, if anything.

Be sensible with the expenses part. At least £50.00 but depends on how many hoops you have to go through before it is settled.

Stage2. Again you are correct in that it is a breach of contract. If you are not comfortable with it then stick to Stage 1 for now. It is fairly simple, out of interest for you, to work out what it could be. Simply total the high rate kWh and low rate kWh shown on all your bills. Multiply by the price applicable to each at the time you joined npower. Add VAT. Total the two. Compare this figure to the total amount npower have billed you for.

In my case this put my claim from around £100 to £1000 not incl expenses. When push came to shove npower caved in and coughed up. So whatever your claim is, don't expect npower to make it easy and be persistent.

Sterling

Mick_Steel wrote: »

I worked out (using Sterling’s excellent table) the high tier/primary units that I was charged from May 06 through to the present day

Many thanks for your kind comments about my table. I am always very pleased when someone finds it useful.

In addition to DD’s replies to your questions, may I perhaps suggest you have a look at two of my earlier posts, which you may find give some additional assistance by way of further clarification.

1. #1006 on page 51. This gives both of my tables (A & with explanations.

2. #1048 on page 53. This gives a worked example on some real figures from post #1043.

If you are still struggling in any way whatever after that, do not hesitate to come back with any further concerns or difficulties you may have. We are all here to help each other – and glad to do so, as you will have seen already.

To answer your question as to why my table (A) does not go back any further than 2006, it’s because the changes npower made in 2007 don’t affect any 12 month periods that end any earlier than 1st May 2007. But as you rightly guessed, the monthly apportionment of high tier units are the same going back as far as 01/10/2004 (see DD’s post #1157) when npower made its last change. Also, anyone joining npower after 01/11/2007 (ie after the second change in 2007) would be outside the range of the overcharging etc.

Good luck with it all, and don’t forget to claim for your time spent when you claim your money back, including time spent on being given the usual run-around by npower.

Upwind

Thanks DD and Sterling - I appreciate your help.

You'r e right DD - I did make a typo on the Dec figure...... good spot!

Now the work begins - I'll let you know how far I get!!

Thanks again (for now) guys.

meggsy

meggsy wrote: »

Originally Posted by DirectDebacle
We won't go away.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/mon...cle5902979.ece

After I posted this on Saturday I sent an email to Steve Webb MP and included the email I sent to Ofgem last year in response to their Call for Evidence probe. They asked for evidence and then couldn't investigate the 'sculpting scam' ? :mad:

Notice npower have announced price cuts today but only on electricity :rolleyes:

The above quote refers to post #1037 dated 16th March.
I received a reply from Steve Webb on 26th April with apologies for the delay in replying, part of the email ...

"The Times have fought an effective campaign and I am continuing to work with them and with the Energy Ombudsman to see if more can be done".

DirectDebacle

As a footnote to Sterlings post #1160. There was a 'sculpt' for the year 2004/2005. The weighting profile was introduced on 1/10/2004 to replace the existing flat rate which had been in use from 1/4/2003. This caused more units to be charged at the higher rate than should have been for the year 1/4/2004-31/3/2005. This same weighted profile was used up until 30/4/2007.

Sterling

While we are a period of relative calm on the thread I hope no one minds if I mention something that has been puzzling me for ages.

You see, during the course of this thread (now over a year old and still going strong) I have often wondered just exactly how certain press reports on this topic were able to estimate just how much npower got away with in total from its affected customers.

Clearly, npower can get its own answer from its computerised billing system at the press of a button. But as far as I know, those nice chaps at npower haven’t volunteered to provide a figure to the press – come to think of it, if they did, could we rely upon it being accurate?

In general the press reports that I have seen tend to pitch the figure at somewhere around £100 – 110 million (of our hard-earned money). But how, I wondered, can you calculate this figure.

After all, customers join and leave npower at different times and after different lengths of time; and the number of excess high tier gas units that any customer has been billed for (instead of low tier ones) over any twelve month period depends upon what date the customer start his or her year from; and the problem stretches beyond a single calendar year. How do you get a grip on it all?

It all seemed way too complicated for me, even to know where to begin to solve this one. So I left it at the back of my mind, and assumed the estimates in the press were accurate enough for the time being.

I expect there will be a few people reading this who could solve this sort of problem in the twinkling of an eye. I have met people with that gift. Sadly, I am not in that league or anywhere near, but sometimes – after a bit of thought – a solution will occur to me.

Anyway I had a light-bulb moment to-day, and you may perhaps agree with me that what follows is a surprising example of how with just a little reasoning you can solve the seemingly unsolvable – i.e. how do you figure out how much dosh npower has taken us for?

At this point I need to break off – and continue in the next post, due to the maximum limit of 5000 characters per post. END OF PART 1

Sterling

PART 2
(Continued from Part 1)

Firstly, what do we know for sure?

Well, I think we can reasonably say that the press estimate of 2.2 million for the number of npower customers overcharged (being those on the two tier tariffs) is good enough for our purposes. The same figure was repeatedly used by Energywatch and Ofgem and seems to be the official figure.

Now, let’s assume that that figure of 2.2 million remains constant over the period we are going to look at, which covers June 2006 to October 2007 inclusive (17 months). In other words, that the numbers of people joining and leaving npower in any of those months are the same. So the total number remains unchanged at 2.2 million customers.

“Where does that get us?”

Well, (for the purposes of this exercise) we can say on the law of averages (and ignoring any seasonal variations) that if you asked all 2.2 million customers in turn, “Regardless of the year you joined, in what calendar month did you join npower as a customer?” That about one twelfth of them would say January; one twelfth, February - and one twelfth for each of the other months. Now, this equal division of the 2.2 million customers through the months of the year is key to the solution.

Next, I have reproduced below my Table B from my post #1006 on page 51, for ease of reference. Perhaps I should say “Here’s one I made earlier”.

……………………………………TABLE B
……………….…………2006……………………2007
……………..…..Month……..Day…….....Month………Day
January……….n/a…………n/a…………..1736……….8.11
February………n/a…………n/a…………..1988……….8.99
March……………n/a…………n/a……………2249………-9.23
April………………n/a…………n/a…………..1962………-5.90
May………………….0………..1.81………….1785…….-10.81
June…………..…….56………6.29………….1450….…-11.17
July………………..245……….8.75…………1115…….-10.81
August……………516……….8.75…………..780.……-10.81
September…….787……….6.29…………...445…….-11.17
October………….976……….1.52……………110……...-3.54
November……1023……..13.72………………0..……….…0
December……1435……….9.73……………….0……….……0

In a nutshell, the figures in the “Month” columns show how many excess high tier units would be wrongly billed to a customer over a year (instead of low tier units) as from the first of any month shown above in either 2006 or 2007. The customer loses out to npower by the difference in price between the high and low tier units for every excess high tier unit concerned.

We know the prices vary over time and so does the price difference, but for my own bills, the price difference averages out at say 4 pence. So 100 excess units works out at £4 plus 5% VAT = £4.20 (1,000 = £42.00 incl VAT).

In the above table, forget the “Day” columns above, which are for customers whose year does not start on the first of a month. For convenience, we will assume that all of the customers joined on the first of any given month.

For example, let us take the month of June. The excess figure is 56 excess units in 2006; and 1450 in 2007.

Now, we said earlier that the 2.2 million customers were split evenly into the calendar months. And 2.2 million divided by 12 = 183,333 customers in any month.

So, looking at (say) June 2006, 183,333 customers each paid 4 pence too much for 56 excess high tier units that should have been low tier. And that works out at £409,920 plus 5% VAT overpaid in total that month. Repeat that process for June 2007, and you have £10.614 million plus VAT overpaid.

You do the same for all the other months in 2006 and 2007 with figures in the “Months” columns, and total the lot up. When you do this you get a full total of £136.83 million overpaid to npower, plus VAT at 5% = £143.67 million (as compared with the press’s estimate at £100 – 110 million). That’s not a bad match considering….

Yes, I have made a few simplifications, and perhaps my average price difference of 4 pence per excess unit may be a tad high, but over all, I reckon my answer is not all that far out as an approximation. Now, who’d have thought we could have got here from such meagre beginnings. It just goes to show.

In fact, it turns out that there is a very nice short cut in that all you have to do to get the answer is to add up all the figures in the 2006 and 2007 “Months” columns in the above table (=18658) multiply this by 2.2 million divided by twelve, and multiply the result by your value for the average price difference in pence (I used 4 pence) and divide by 100. That gives the ex VAT answer. Multiply that by 1.05 to crank up the result to include VAT, and there you are.

Now – the next step is to get npower to pay it all back.