who owns the house?

virgin_moneysaver

mum has asked me a question which i don't know the answer so maybe someone here can help me

mum & dad own their house and are 'tenants in common' - their wills state that the party that dies first, their half goes to the children & the remaining partner stays in the house until their demise when their half goes to the children

if the remaining party has to go into a home can the local authority insist on the house being sold to pay as in effect that party only owns half the house

the reason she's worried is that a friend of hers has her mum in a home with alzheimers & she has to pay £1880 every 4 weeks - they're just about running out of funds are having to consider selling the house which is the mums outright

she's really annoyed as she heard on radio 2 that a home will give the same care to residents who are there either by private means or council funded, yet the home will charge the council less than what they charge the private person

any info greatly received

margaretclare

No, is the short answer to your Mum's question.

Assuming both are over 60, if one goes into a home then the other remains there as long as he/she is able or wants to.

This happened to some friends of mine last year. Mum had been in a home for 3 years, Dad remained at home, he died in May and she died in December. Because she inherited the house from Dad, the cost of her care between May and December is chargeable to her estate, which depends on probate and house beng sold, now empty. During the previous 3 years, while Dad was alive, there was a small amount paid for her care in the home, only a small amount because she had very little, he had most of the assets.

HTH

ameliarate

Assuming both are over 60, if one goes into a home then the other remains there as long as he/she is able or wants to.

I think the question is if one partner has died and the other goes into a home, would that make a difference as, essentially, the remaining partner owns only half the house but with the right to stay there until their demise? I would be very interested to know the answer to this as my partner and I are in the same position and I would hate for my share of the house to be taken by the council and not go to my daughter.

margaretclare

ameliarate wrote: »

Assuming both are over 60, if one goes into a home then the other remains there as long as he/she is able or wants to.

I think the question is if one partner has died and the other goes into a home, would that make a difference as, essentially, the remaining partner owns only half the house but with the right to stay there until their demise? I would be very interested to know the answer to this as my partner and I are in the same position and I would hate for my share of the house to be taken by the council and not go to my daughter.

That wasn't the question I answered from the OP. The OP was talking about both mum and dad being alive.

I can't answer your question, sorry!

Errata

if the remaining party has to go into a home can the local authority insist on the house being sold to pay as in effect that party only owns half the house

Care Homes insist that the fees be paid ! That may entail assets having to be sold. Care Homes are a commercial business.

Mojisola

virgin_moneysaver wrote: »

mum & dad own their house and are 'tenants in common' - their wills state that the party that dies first, their half goes to the children & the remaining partner stays in the house until their demise when their half goes to the children

if the remaining party has to go into a home can the local authority insist on the house being sold to pay as in effect that party only owns half the house

As I understand it, if the survivor (who would own half the house) has to go into care then that care would have to be paid for. I don't think a house sale can be forced - just that the money would have to found from somewhere. For example, the house could be rented out and the rents used to pay for care.

If all the owners agreed to a sale, then only the survivor's share could be used to pay for their care. The rest of the money belongs to the children.

If this isn't right, I hope someone will clarify the position.

Mojisola

virgin_moneysaver wrote: »

the reason she's worried is that a friend of hers has her mum in a home with alzheimers & she has to pay £1880 every 4 weeks - they're just about running out of funds are having to consider selling the house which is the mums outright

This is another issue - but your Mother's friend should make sure that her Mother isn't paying too much.

This is from https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/factsheet/452 -

"People with dementia living in nursing homes should have their nursing care provided free of charge by the NHS; this is known as the registered nursing care contribution (RNCC)"

virgin_moneysaver

margaretclare wrote: »

That wasn't the question I answered from the OP. The OP was talking about both mum and dad being alive.

I can't answer your question, sorry!

sorry, I didnt make myself clear - say dad dies, is half goes to children & mum stays in house, mum then goes into home, as she technically only owns half the house surely they cant force a sale as its not her property outright?

virgin_moneysaver

Errata wrote: »

Care Homes insist that the fees be paid ! That may entail assets having to be sold. Care Homes are a commercial business.

but why are private patients being forced to pay more than council patients when they get the same care

redflame705

I think you've raised 2 questions.
1. If the residential home your mom was to go into was funded privately by your mom's funds then no, the property would not have to be sold unless you needed to raise the funds to pay for the residential home fees.

2. If you approached the local authority for a placement at a residential home, then they will perform a financial assessment based on your mothers income & capital. This would include the house. The local authority may do a valuation of the property to work out how much is her capital asset. If it exceeds a threshold set by the department of health (I think it's £22000 for this year but don't quote me on that) then your mother would not receive any financial help from the local authority. The local authority can disregard the property value for 12 weeks in order for you to sell her part of the property, meaning that someone in the family would have be willing to take over her share. Any funding by the local authority beyond the 12 weeks would have to be repaid to the local authority.
There are various exceptions and rules regarding property and to be honest the best place to get a complete answer is to contact your mother's local authority or going onto the Department of Health website if you are seriously thinking of putting your mom in a home. In my experience, central goverment and it's various different bodies change the rules all the time and local authorities sometimes do things to the sale rules but implement them slightly differently.
And finally, I am really sorry for the lengthy response. You have asked a question which doesn't have a simple answer I'm afraid.
Quote from Department of Health: Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide:
Where an interest in a property is beneficially shared between relatives, the value of the
resident's interest will be heavily influenced by the possibility of a market amongst his fellow
beneficiaries. If no other relative is willing to buy the resident's interest, it is highly unlikely that
any "outsider" would be willing to buy into the property unless the financial advantages far
outweighed the risks and limitations involved. The value of the interest, even to a willing buyer,
could in such circumstances effectively be nil. If the local authority is unsure about the resident's
share, or their valuation is disputed by the resident, again a professional valuation should be
obtained.

margaretclare

virgin_moneysaver wrote: »

sorry, I didn't make myself clear - say dad dies, is half goes to children & mum stays in house, mum then goes into home, as she technically only owns half the house surely they cant force a sale as its not her property outright?

I said I can't answer this question. If a person goes into full-time care then that care has to be paid for somehow. AFAIK it's the person who's receiving the care that gets the bill, not the children.

Are you saying that 'the children', who own half the house, are living in it and are at risk of being made homeless? Or are you saying that children have own homes, mum no longer needs her house because she's living in a care home and the house is being left empty to deteriorate?

Mojisola has answered more fully than I could.