New Car - Breakdowns

[Deleted User]

Just in case I need to know for later, can anybody from a Trading Standards or Legal background tell me how bad a new car has to be before it can reasonably be replaced?


We have a new Ford Focus C-Max - great workhorse and it has a huge boot, but it is one of these technical pieces of electronic wizardry that seems to be all "drive by wire". We have had it since the beginning of April and twice in the past two and a half months it has packed in with electrical faults (and we were away on holiday for a fortnight without it - didn't fancy driving to Majorca!). First time (mid June) it showed "engine system failure" and was away for two days - tonight Mrs Wild Rover was driving it and the power just died on her just as she was about to go on a 70 mph road. Power steering, the lot. Nice RAC man reckons it was not fixed properly the first time. He said just as well she wasn't going round a roundabout, or in the fast lane. :eek:


Now, not that I'm a pessimist or anything, but if there is an electrical problem that results in the thing shutting down its electrics without warning, we won’t be happy and will be looking for some serious action, and pronto.:mad:


If it was a kettle or a toaster, I’d be on my high horse in the shop demanding a refund. Anybody had success like that with a car?


Wild (and presently carless) Rover

blue_haddock

Whilst these faults are problematic i don't yet think your at the point where you can demand your money back - usually you have to give the dealer a fair chance for him to fix it and when it has done it multiple times without the dealer being able to satisfactorily fix it then you would be able to try to claim your money back. They will of course make a reasonale deduction for the amount of time you have owned and used the vehicle

[Deleted User]

Thanks for that.

I am just so hacked-off with this. The car is less than 4 months old. This is now twice since the beginning of June it has had to be returned to the seller’s Service Department for repair. My wife only realised today that things could have gone really badly for her last night and she ended up in tears over it. THAT MAKES ME ANGRY. She was heading towards the Edinburgh City Bypass, but luckily, she had not yet reached it when the "Engine System Failure" message appeard and she was able to turn off the road into a parking area. Before she could even park, the engine systems “died”. Speedometer, lights, power steering – the lot. The engine cut out. Had it happened 60 seconds later, she would as likely as not been doing 70 along the Bypass. (Which is that road's speed limit!)

Things got worse today. Today my wife received a call from the Service Department saying that they cannot find anything wrong with it! They suggest that we take the car back, and run it normally "until it happens again", then take it back to them and they will “look at it again and try and find out what is wrong with it”.


My concerns are as follows:-


1) We have bought a “new” car, and it is under a 3 year warranty. Two elecrical system breakdowns in less than a 10 week period is an unacceptable situation.


2) We are being advised to run a car which cannot be roadworthy. If the engine and electrical systems had failed last night 60 seconds later, not even the hazard warning lights would have worked. My wife could have been killed. The car could have lost all power and been rammed from behind - no brake lights, no indicator lights so that she could safely change lanes and head for the hard shoulder, no hazard warning lights, just an unlit decelerating car in the fast lane of a busy dual carriageway.


3) If they were not able to find the problem today, when it was taken to them immediately the fault happened, how can they reasonably tell us that if we take it to them “the next time”, they will be able to fix it? That is, if there is anybody left alive to take it back?


4) We are not dealing with a faulty electric window here, or a problem with the car’s CD player. The car could simply stop without warning at any time, at any speed, on any type of road. I realise that any supplier must be given a reasonable chance to repair a faulty product, but with something as potentially serious as a car’s engine failing without warning I would imagine that the test of reasonableness is of a different degree than would apply to other types of purchases. I suppose most importantly the question in my mind here is at what point under consumer law can a car be reasonably deemed as “not fit for purpose” and the buyer entitled to a replacement?

5) Needless to say, the company cannot immediately supply us with a courtesy car, so our "choice" is to take it back unrepaired or leave it with them for an indefinite period while they take as long as they like to find the problem, while at the same time we are paying the finance company for a product we do not have access to! Hopefully you will understand the anger that we are feeling.


Sorry, rant over, for a while at any rate - it is Ford that deserve this, not my fellow Money Savers:o . I suppose I needed to rehearse the rant before I deliver it to the company! (In a reasonable manner of course:cool: )


Cheers

WR

davidjg

Hi,

As a prospective new C-Max owner I have found this site very useful

http://www.ffoc.co.uk/forum/viewforum.php?f=95&sid=792598a14b07fd0870ce18b9d0a30b9e

David G

[Deleted User]

Hmmm - thanks for that - I might even register as a menber!

Having done your research are you going to get one? I have to say when it is working it is a great car. If only we can keep it working......

WR

[Deleted User]

RESULT!! At least, a temporary victory. :j We went down to the Service Dept last night and pointed out the unreasonable situation we were in.


From the earlier discussion, the situation was that because the service dept couldn't pinpoint the problem, they couldn't identify the faulty part or parts. As they couldn't pinpoint the faulty part/s, they would not be able to explain to Ford why the car was in for repair, therefore Ford would not authorise the rental of the "courtesy" car. We were faced with taking the car back unfixed, and in our mind potentially lethal, or having no car, or leaving our car with them and having to pay for a hire car ourselves. To be fair to the foreman, he was stating the company policy - it is just that the company policy does not respond to what the customer actually requires. (Incidentally, anyone hoping to get any joy after reading Ford's "Ford. We're with you all the way" booklet and calling Ford’s "Customer Relationship Centre" can forget it. We might as well have been talking to the village idiot - it seems that customers are there for the convenience of the company)


I am happy to say that throughout all the conversations last night we stayed calm, even although Mrs Wild Rover was in tears twice at the thought of getting back into what she believes is a dangerous vehicle. Eventually I pointed out that we had been getting cars from the same dealership for 10 years, and that when the sales team are with you they bend over backwards to help. I asked the foreman if the sales team knew when they sold the vehicles about the rules and regulations affecting how customers were treated after the event. A light seemed to come on in his mind - he asked which salesman we had dealt with and he lifted the phone - although our salesman was not there another man came round to see us and within 2 minutes he was speaking to Mrs WR's insurance company to get cover for one of the sales team's demonstrators.:D

Result is we have left the C-Max with the service dept and we have a Focus 1600 Ghia sitting in the deiveway for up to a week - it will be extended if the fault isn't found by then.


Who knows – it might even get fixed….

WR