17th Edition Confusion; which consumer unit

lisap4123

Can I ask for help on this thread please - I had an electrician round (not sure of his quality standards / schemes backed by as I invited him to have a quick look at my electrics when he was at a neighbours house). Basically I wanted my electric sockets in the cellar putting on their own circuit so that they could be shut off safely in case of flood (my cellar has flooded twice in 3 years as I live in Worcester and there are electric sockets down there). He looked at the electrics and found that the consumer unit was about 30 years old and had faults - was on a 32 amp rather than 16 and the RCD wasnt working. A replacement part for the RCD he has quoted at around £80 all in, I think about £10 for the amp replacing. Not quoted me yet for putting the cellar electrics on a seperate circuit. There may also be other faults he hasnt found yet He said I may aswell get a new consumer unit which would resolve all these faults - about £280 + VAT. So my question is - when I come to sell my house in say 2-3 years, what do I need to show for the home buyers pack re the electrics ? Do I need a certificate which only a certain registered electrician can provide? Is the work guarranteed then? Is the new consumer unit a part P building regs item or not?

Also seperately the electrician has said that my meter has no earth and must have one fitted. This will cost extra and he cant do it but need to get someone else over who can. Surely if its my meter (which is old and has cracked glass on it) then I would be best just getting a new meter and who would be responsible for paying for this??

All advice welcome - electrics arent really my thing !!!

baldelectrician

lisap

I have a few concerns about your statement

I would have suggested a PIR (electrical inspection) to ascertian the state of the electrics. You will probably need your main bonding (gas and water) connections upgraded to 10mm or so when the work is done

The electricity company may (or may not) provide you with and earth, ask someone if they can TNC-S / PME the supply, and how much it would cost. Then you will have an earth.

The consumer unit is covered by part P (England and Wales), but no matter where you are in the UK you should get a BS7671 cert.

yolis

I agree with bald electrician.
A PIR (periodic inspection report) is a document at least four pages long that gives you a detailed report on the current condition of your electrical installation highlighting serious and minor faults (coded as to the severety).
This report should cost between £20-£40 per circuit (count them in your consumer unit).

A replacement RCD should only cost around £30 to supply and mcb's are around £5.

If you have a PIR carried out then make sure the electrician has professional indemnity cover so you can sue if he gives you bad advice.

A consumer unit replacement should DEFINITELY come with an electrical installation certificate (at least 3 pages long- not a minor works cert) and has to be notified to building control under part P of the building regulations.
This notification can be done by an electrician who is registered to self certify under a competant persons scheme as provided by several bodies in the UK- NAPIT, NICEIC, ELECSA and I think there is another one but I can't remember who.

I would recommend NAPIT (National Association of Professional Inspectors and Testers) as in my experience their standards seem to be higher.

Do not use an unregistered sparks as they will undoubtedly cut corners qand leave things potentially dangerous (I have seen this many times).

yolis

I forgot to mention the earth.
It seems unlikely that the installation has no earth whatsoever (possible though) but it may be that a mettallic service pipe (water) was used.
If this is the case it most definitle needs upgrading.

There may be a knockout on the suppliers cut out for a PME connection as is often the case. (this links the neutral to the earth at the point of incoming supply).

lisap4123

Hi thanks for the info. After my last post I phoned back the guy who came and mentioned the building regs. Although he hadnt mentioned the building regs to me he seemed to know about them. I asked if he was a competent person but he avoided answering the Q, but went on to say if I wanted a certificate for the installation I would have to have my whole house tested for another £100. I am dubious about him. So I got another sparky out who was on the competent persons list. He was much more professional and didnt try and frighten me with stories of people burning to death as they slept due to electrical faults such as mine (ref to 1st guy). He did however verify the same faults - RCD faulty, maybe 16amp reqd....but he also found other things out. He said there was another RCD system located round the corner from the consumer unit which also wasnt working. He said I am on a TT system, but he also couldnt find an earth on the meter, but he thought there was a earth rod somewhere. Also need the earth to be re-located on the gas meter to the other side and have an earth located or fitted to the incoming water pipe (I dont even know where this is and he couldnt find it either!). All this before they can do anything on my electrics for safety. Then he would recommend a 17th edition consumer unit due to the changing regs and coz I may be selling or renting out my house in 2 years time, also because of the 2nd faulty RCD and that the 17th edition would have RCD's on each circuit so the 2nd one wouldnt be needed. BUT he says that whilst my wiring looks to be fairly modern (I was told when I bought the house that it had been rewired recently but I think this was by a builder rather than a sparky) that in fitting the 17th Ed CU they will need to test each circuit for faults - if they find a fault then it will need fixing before they can wire it up - worst case scenario - whole house rewire and new consumer unit. I havent had the written quote yet but I heard it is thousands. I am stunned and worried - I wanted the power to 2 plugs isolated, I have been told I am living in an electrically unsafe house and the work to put it right could cost thousands. I dont have thousands. What do I do ??? If I just got the spare part so I had a working RCD does this mean I wouldnt be able to sell the house or rent it out???? AAAAGGGGHHHHH

inspect

Step 1 – get your incoming supply upgraded as balde suggested.

Step 2 – get quotes for the installation of a 17th fuse board and main bonding to gas & water ( 10mm² green and yellow cable going to within 600mm of the gas isolating valve and water stop tap. If you can’t find the stop tap, bond where the pipe work enters the property.)

Step 3 – Upgrade the electrics in the cellar. If possible raise outlets above flood levels and ensure that they are constructed to suit their environment. Eg it may be better to install outside sockets or similar that have a suitable resistance to wet and damp conditions. Install the circuit on its own RCBO to help prevent nuisance tripping of other circuits if the cellar floods again.

It is a requirement that when a new fuse board is fitted that all circuits on that board are tested. The results will show any faults and if the circuits comply with current standards. Although an electrician may refuse to reconnect an unsafe circuit they cannot make you carry out remedial work.

lisap4123

Thanks inspect. It is nice to see this nightmare broken down into 3 steps. I am working on step 1 although to make things more complicated I am switching electricity and gas suppliers at the mo so I will have to wait until the switch has gone through to the new provider. Then I can get a new meter (and earth) then look at getting quotes and the consumer unit replaced. But what will happen if I get the consumer unit replaced and the electrician refuses to connect an unsafe circuit - will I be left without electricity if I cant afford the work to rectify the prob?

baldelectrician

Had a similar thing last week.

Changed a consumer unit (16th Edition) and there was an earth fault on a socket circuit. Ended up putting these sockets on NON-RCD side of the consumer unit and noting it on the certificate.

Electrics are different from gas. I cannot disconnect something (without customers permission) if it is unsafe, but may refuse to connect it if it is that dangerous.

Client notified and will pencil in work to be carried out.
Had reduced MCB size of socket circuit (to 16A) as there wasn't a comlete ring either.

I find the clients mind galvanises when you give them a triplicate sheet with the defects noted (and their signature)

norfolksparks

Sorry to disagree with you baldelectrician but there is no requirement in 17th edition regs for ALL circuits to be RCD protected. You can even have a dedicated socket outlet on it's own circuit for say a freezer that isn't rcd protected. RCD protection on circuits other than socket outlets is only needed when unprotected cables are buried less than 50mm deep. Also if consumer unit is changed before July 1st it doesn't have to comply with 17th edition anyway. I would advise fitting a dual RCD Board or to take the more expensive route of using RCBO'S instead of mcb's to make the installation future proof, even though this is not necessary it makes for good common sense. But this is not compulsory as 17th edition is not compulsory until July 1st and the wiring regulations aren't retrospective. I would however make sure that the upstairs sockets are RCD protected as well as the downstairs to comply with 17th edition so that any spurs or additions can be made without having to upgrade.

pjb0150

i need to move it seems my consumer unit which is in bathroom just a few feet so it is outside bathroom and in hallway.
house was built 1974 and old type consumer unit is in there .no rcb-- just fuses
what do i need to do
what will i need to upgrade.
thanks in advance