Protecting a house against long-term care money grab

treliac

EdInvestor wrote: »

How can it be justified that a married individual effectively pays nothing but a single widowed or divorced individual is up for the full whack?

I don't think that is the right angle. The question is whether the house is still needed for a 'close relative' (as defined by the regulations) and if so, as things are at present, it is simply disregarded. But not when and if it comes to the last occupant with entitlement.

This is properly adhered to by my own authority. If there are any that don't intepret the guidance properly, IMO this would be discriminatory, illegal and should be challenged.

Errata

The world has gone mad ! Local Authorities paying the care home fees for someone who has property assets worth perhaps many hundreds of thousands and older people not getting the adequate support they need to stay in their own homes because the LA's budget isn't large enough.
I give up !

EdInvestor

To my mind the problem really boils down to a single aspect: is dementia/Alzheimers a mental and physical illness, or a normal part of old age? Ff the former, anyone who gets it and needs full time care should be funded by the NHS. The same should apply (and probably usually does) to those with severely disabling strokes.

If these two groups were paid for , then the care financing problem would effectively go away, as the vast majority of the rest of the upcoming generation is unlikely to need or want accommodation in care homes - but will be able to manage with the various other arrangements mentioned earlier.

Does anyone believe dementia is not an illness, but simply part of ageing?

Errata

Alzheimers and dementias are functional mental health problems. That means the brain is physically damaged, either by brain cells clumping and tangling in the case of Alzheimers, which can develop as early as age 40, or by brain cells being killed off by small strokes in the case of vascular dementia. This results in the brain not being able to function as parts of it dedicated to various tasks no longer work. So personality can change, memory is affected & etc.
Dementia is a normal part of ageing, like hearing and vision becoming less good with age, and has been written about since Shakespeare's time.
Some people's dementia develops quite rapidly and for others it's quite a slow process and may only mean their short term memory is becoming poor but they will still be capable of making decisions for themselves.

The human body wears out in fits and starts and bits and pieces.

There are people with dementia giving keynote speeches at old age health conferences, and they're jolly good at it.

My family has a history of vascular dementia running through the female maternal line through four generations so I have a high genetic risk, but that doesn't mean I'll develop dementia. I may drop dead of a heart attack first, and reading some of the posts on MSE that's a distinct possibility at times

I think people's views differ on what is illness and what isn't. Low vision, hearing impairment, loss of some mobility can all come with age but none of them in my view are illnesses simply the human body's systems starting to slip a few cogs through wear and tear. HTH

CAE

I disagree. Dementia is not a normal part of the ageing process, but a progressive illness which requires more care as the illness progresses.

Early onset dementia is an example, which Errata mentioned can begin as early as 40. How can that be part of normal wear and tear on the human body?

In the future normal retirement age is going to be 68. My mother would never have been able to function in any job by that age, as by then she was in the first stages of dementia. She is now just 74, and has been in full time residential care for the last 18 months. Believe me, this was the most painful decision we have ever made as a family, and was not a decision that was made lightly. The staff at the care home could not understand how we had coped with Mums illness and behaviour at that time. Many people believe Alzheimers and Dementia to be just a 'memory problem'. I can assure you it is much more than that. She no longer recognises anyone, including her husband of 53 years. She can barely walk a few steps, cannot feed, wash or dress herself, is doubly incontinent, takes no interest in anything around her and cannot communicate with any understanding. My heart breaks every week when I visit, but Mum is one of the lucky ones as she actually gets visitors.

I am truly thankful that she has funded care, and although she is part owner of the marital home, we only have to contribute her state pension, less a weekly allowance. Savings are well below the limit anyway. If we had unlimited funds we could have a much greater choice in where Mum is cared for, but saying that we are very happy with the care she receives.

If my Dad was to pass away before Mum, then her part of the value of the house would then be used to fund her care, and as a family we would be glad to use the money in that way.

Sorry to ramble on and to go off topic, but I do feel strongly about this. Alzheimers and Dementia - Definitely an illness not a normal part of ageing.

seven-day-weekend

Agreed CAE about Alzheimers v. normal aging.

My mum lived to be nearly 94 and had the short-term memory loss which oftern comes with aging. She could recognise us all, have a sensible conversation (although she might forget what she'd said five minutes later!), knew what the toilet and shower were for and still enjoyed her reading - in fact she enjoyed it more as she could read the same book over and over again as she didn't remember reading it the first time!. She just needed a bit of extra help physically to do things - although she forgot things her conversation made sense and she still had a decent quality of life.

My sister who was 19 years older than me died of Alzheimers two years ago at the age of 75. She'd had it from around 60. IIt was nothing like the forgetfulness my mum had. She knew nobody, not her husband who she'd married as a teenager, none of her four children, none of her grandchildren not me or our other sister. She quite often looked terrified and would scream. Well wouldn't you if you didn't know what was happening? She could not do anything for herself and if no-one had fed her she would have starved to death. She died two years after our mum.

No wonder Alzheimers is called 'the long goodbye'. A dreadful condition..

cupid_s

EdInvestor wrote: »

Does anyone believe dementia is not an illness, but simply part of ageing?

Whilst dementia is not a normal part of aging - I honestly believe that if we lived long enough then we would all get some sort of dementia and most of the experts in this field agree.

Errata wrote:

That means the brain is physically damaged, either by brain cells clumping and tangling in the case of Alzheimers, which can develop as early as age 40

Just though I would add that cells do not clump in Alzheimer's disease. The clumps I think you are referring to are extracellular aggregates of a specific protein. And the tangles that form are inside cells and are composed of a different protein.

Early onset Alzheimer's is actually caused by mutations, generally in one of two proteins. And hence it can be completely separated from late-onset or 'normal' Alzheimer's.

Errata

Perhaps I didn't write as clearly as I should have done, apologies.
The reason I consider dementia to be part of the normal ageing process is that it's something that affects older people, affects more as they age, rather like dodgy hips and dicky hearts - more commonly found in the old age population than the young. The human body starts to malfunction with age and no part of it is safe from malfunction.

7DW -I think you've given two very graphic examples of dementia and Alzheimers. Things must have been dreadful for your sister, her family and you, Alzheimers is truly cruel.

There are degrees of dementia. Your mum's experience is very much like my stepdad's who has a diagnosis of dementia but very unlike my mum who also had a diagnosis of dementia and didn't have a clue about what, where, who, when or why. But ...........she was very content, nothing worried her as she couldn't remember anything and couldn't remember that she couldn't remember.

Errata

cupid_s wrote: »

Whilst dementia is not a normal part of aging - I honestly believe that if we lived long enough then we would all get some sort of dementia and most of the experts in this field agree.




Just though I would add that cells do not clump in Alzheimer's disease. The clumps I think you are referring to are extracellular aggregates of a specific protein. And the tangles that form are inside cells.

Early onset Alzheimer's is actually caused by mutations, generally in one of two proteins. And hence it can be completely separated from late-onset or 'normal' Alzheimer's.

Many thanks for the correction.

CAE

Seven day weekend - I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. This disease / illness is truly the long goodbye. And one that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

I don;t think anyone can truly comprehend the extent of the damage caused by dementia unless they have been involved with it. But I guess that goes for any illness. I dont pretend to be an expert, and can only tell it as I have found it to be in our situation.