Protecting a house against long-term care money grab

JimLin

Hi,

I think this is the right forum to post this.

My widowed mother has had a massive stroke and it is likely that she will need a large amount of long-term care. It looks like it is too late, but is there anyway of avoiding the money grab carried out by the government to finance this care? The value of the property is about £300,000 and she has savings of about £20,000.

Cheers,
JimLin

GrannyKate

You need to get some advice now re qualifying for Continuing Care Funding which will depend on an assessment of your mother's need for health and/or social care.

Good leaflets available from web sites of Help the Aged and Age Concern. If you search on this site you will also find other posts on Continuing Care Funding. You could also ask for information and advice from the PALS team of your local Primary Care Trust. Get lots of information before you start filling in forms from social services. Also worth starting to look at homes to get some ideas. If your mother lived alone and is the sole owner of the property it will probably need to be sold to fund at least some of the care but do not rush to do anything without getting advice.

Sorry to hear your news - it must be a sad time for you.

LondonDiva

Several things

1 - sorry to hear about your mother and I would advise you to consider contacting your local age concern for advice. Is the main part of her care needs social or health?

2 - Her home will not be 'nabbed' here and now to pay for anything. What tends to happen is that a charge is placed on the property so the council can be paid on a death.

3 - And this is REALLY important.

It's not a grab, it's using her money to provide her with as good a care as she can afford. Having that level of financial resource means she / you will be lucky enough to be able to pick and choose what the family consider an acceptable level of care / support.

Having worked and saved, your mother may feel that the money is better spent on her needs / according to her immediate priorities to ensure she gets the best of everything not just the basics that the council / NHS is willing to give her, rather than paying for a house deposit for a grandchild etc, etc.

dunstonh

Most of the means of removing capital from the estate have to take place long before care is known to be needed. Typically a minimum of 12 months but can be more.

However, with savings at £20k there is little that could have been done about it anyway.

Your mother is lucky to have £320k of assets which should help fund her care and retirement to a comfortable level. This has to be better than you trying to syphon off money for yourself so your mother ends up in some lower quality care home being paid for by the taxpayer.

JohnnieW

JimLin
Sorry to hear your sad news. You must be very upset.

Just want to reinterate what Granny Kate has said. It is overwhelmingly likely that your mother will be entitled to continuing care. You should make an application as soon as possible.

It is however now too late to rearrange your mums finances for any means tested benefits, but this should not matter. You are extremely likely to be entitled to continuing care.

It can however be a bit of a struggle, but try not to be put off, even at this difficult time.

margaretclare wrote: »

It must also be remembered that, having had one stroke, the underlying pathology is still there and the likelihood is that there will be other, likely more serious, strokes to come. One of these will be fatal. Or there are the 'mini-strokes' which cause ischaemic dementia and that's not a fate I would wish on my worst enemy.


Margaret

I am sure that these words have not made you feel any better about what must be a difficult situation, but I wish you and your family well.

monkeyspanner

If your Mother has to go into a care home as long as she has less than £21500 in savings and her income is less than the care home fees she will be entitled to some assistance from the council social services in the first 12 weeks of her stay. This '12 week disregard' is to allow a breathing space whilst her house is sold. I think the house does have to be actually on the market to qualify. This assistance is means and care needs tested. The Social Services will assess her care needs in one of 4 care levels they will then deduct from the assessed level all her weekly income except a 'pocket money' allowance of £20.45 per week. There is also a computation of notional income from her savings above a certain level up to the £21500. One twist to note here is that the fees your mum pays as a self-funder will probably be more than the fees a council funded resident will pay thus there will probably be a top-up required between the council assessed level and the actual fees your mum has to pay. This can be paid by either your mum (1st party top-up) or the family (3rd party top-up).

As Grannykate says you should ask the discharge team about a NHS Continuing Healthcare assessment. Continuing healthcare is aimed at patients whose primary care need is health rather than domestic. If successful your mum's care would remain the financial responsibility of the NHS via you local PCT and all costs are then picked up by the PCT. Obviously this is something the PCT will avoid if at all possible so you will need to fight your mum's corner. The discharge team are obliged to do at least an initial checklist assessment prior to discharge and they should discuss the outcome with you and/or your mum. My advice would be to push for a full assessment even if the checklist suggests your mum is not entitled and do not agree to a discharge unless the assessment has been done and you have been given the chance to challenge it. Here is a site where you can find more information of care home funding www.counselandcare.org.uk

If you mum is not entitled to Continuing healthcare then she may be entitled to a nursing payment of £101 per week, I think this only applies if she needs a nursing place in a care home. Social services should be able to advise you on this.

It is also worth applying for attendance allowance, this is not means tested and the higher level is £64.50 per week.

If your mum is in poor health it would be worth considering an anuity this will limit your mum's capital outlay to the cost of the anuity. The downside is that once purchased the capital is gone but this could be a relatively small proportion of the £300,000 dependant on your mum's health. Here is a site which you might find helpful for advice on this https://www.hsbcpensions.co.uk/nhfa/pages/index.asp

I would break out your hard hat as posts like this draw a lot of negative posts. There is no reason, however, why you should not wish to protect your mum's financial position. Legislative measures in this area are there for a purpose and there to use.

pepsicola_2

it always seems to divert your attention thats for sure so lets have some of the 100 things which could usefully be discussed rather than giving your medical diagnosis of what this person has to look forward to.

EdInvestor

A lot of the problems and diputes in this area are caused by ignorance.People know little about the facts of financing care, about what resources and benefits may be available, about the financial products that exist.

If the OP's mother has truly had a "massive stroke" and will be totally incapacitated, then it is very likely that her care will be funded wholly by the NHS and there will be nothing for her to pay at all.On the other hand, if she does have to contribute, she has more than adequate assets (unless she is very young) both to pay for her care AND provide a very adequate inheritance for her family if she so desires.

So there is no reason whatsoever for her assets to be hidden and for her family to throw her on the mercy of the council.That would be pure greed. Of course the OP probably isn't aware that if they did that she might get a poorer level of care.

We do know and of course we have sympathy for the OP, but it's often the case that the first post people make on this subject seems to reflect less their concern and worry about the relative's health and more their concern and worry about the relative's assets.

So apologies to the OP if the comment has been critical, but believe me it's not the first time that people have posted on MSE in the belief that they should have an inheritance at their relative's - and the taxpayer's - expense.

In no way does this detract from Monkeyspanners comments about the need to fight for your rights for care funding under the existing rules. The more people who do that, the better.

JimLin

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies. I had written a more detailed reply but managed to delete it some how. I will reply more fully when I get home tonight.

Cheers,
James

insured

So sorry for your troubles.

A friend of mine has just been sucessful with a continuing care application for his father who also had a stroke. The father had quite complicated tax affairs, so already had an accountant who help with the application. I believe she had done a couple for other clients.

I would urge you to persist with the application for funding it is well worth it.

margaretclare wrote: »

there will be other, likely more serious, strokes to come. One of these will be fatal.

Margaret

I am sure that the OP does not want to hear your prognosis, and would urge you to apologise for any upset you have caused him.

Nowhere in his post does he in any way suggest that he does not have the best interests of his mother at heart.

LondonDiva

monkeyspanner wrote: »

My advice would be to push for a full assessment even if the checklist suggests your mum is not entitled and do not agree to a discharge unless the assessment has been done and you have been given the chance to challenge it.

Please don't do this - the right of appeal is not affected by this piece of grandstanding. You can continue to challenge as appropriate.

If your mother is well enough to be discharged from hospital, you should move heaven and earth to work with the powers that be to get her out. The worst place for a well or recovering person is a hospital.

The risk of infection or even set back is that much greater and the suggestion is irresponsible on an individual level for the patient and for society as a whole.

If she is well enough to go to intermediate care or back home for specialised care and treatment in less sterile and confusing surroundings, this will only delay that. On a much larger scale, the cost of keeping her in hopsital when she does not need to be is astronomical and may later contribute to the PCT / NHS not being able to afford to send a district nurse to others because the money was wasted. It all comes out of the same pot with no 'magical refill' to make up a shortfall.