CCA Help please

GirlRacer_2

Good morning, I've seen lots of people sending for their CCA's I think I know what you all mean but could someone please clarify for me.

If you have a credit card or catalogue account, if the company fail to produce a failed credit agreement does that mean you don't owe the money?

Still fighting my sisters corner and she has 2 credit cards (which she applied for online) and a store card. Does this mean that if these companies can't produce this document that she doesn't have to pay the debt?

I'm slightly confused here, surely this can't be right

fatou256

hi girl racer when you ask for yoru CCA you are effectively asking them to see if they have any legal right to collect the debt. However if they fail to turn up it doesn't mean that u don't owed the money but it mean that your agreement may not be enforceable in court. this give u a better chance to bargain a discount to repay the debt back.
if they failed to turn up the CCa the debt still exist after all u have spend the money ! lol

don't forget to sing the CCa letter request and if the debt has been sold to a DCA ask as well for a deed of assignement.

good luck/

fermi

National Debtline have an official factsheet here:

Link: Getting a copy of your credit agreement and account details

In which they correctly state:

If your creditor does not send you a copy of your agreement, or statement of account, within 12 working days, then they are not allowed to take further action against you to enforce the agreement until they do so. If the creditor does not comply within a month (and 12 days) of your original request, they can be prosecuted.

WARNING
If the creditor provides a copy of your agreement or statement of account at any time after you have requested it, then the above sanctions under the Consumer Credit Act no longer apply and the creditor can start action against you to recover the debt.

Being unable to "enforce" the agreement, by going to court as one example, doesn't mean the the debt is not owed. It just means that the creditor is no longer entitled to take steps to recover the money.

The High Court in a very famous case took this slightly further and included in their ruling:

In effect, the creditor – by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms – must (in the light of the provisions in sections 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan monies to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the monies in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid;.............

But that is taking it to the extreme, and most people are of the opinion that the debt still exists but is "unrecoverable" unless you voluntarily agree to pay it.

The lack of an agreement give you a powerful negotiating tool if you should decide you want to negotiate payments or a Full and Final Settlement. It can be very useful even if you don't want to go as far as saying you wont be paying because of no agreement. The lack of an agreement also puts the debt legally into dispute, so creditors/DCA's should not hassle you any more.

However, in your sister's case I believe there were some regulations passed under the Consumer Credit Act in about 2004 that permitted agreements and their documentation to be completed online. So, just because she applied online, it can't be an automatic assumption that no enforceable agreement will exist.

fermi

Just noticed that you mentioned catalogue accounts. In addition to the links already given, there is more excellent information specifically on these here:

Link: Factsheet | Catalogue debts

immoral_angeluk

If they don't supply the CCA it doesn't mean she doesn't owe it... it means they can't enforce it..

fermi

immoral_angeluk wrote: »

If they don't supply the CCA it doesn't mean she doesn't owe it... it means they can't enforce it..

I write half a page of waffle, and then you go and say that which is exactly right.

immoral_angeluk

fermi wrote: »

I write half a page of waffle, and then you go and say that which is exactly right.

lol don't worry usually it's the other way round!

GeorgeUK

Just a note to this - sorry to disagree with you fatou.

It is widely advised on this board NOT to sign the CCA request as there have been cases where the signature was scanned in and photoshopped onto a noe CCA. Not saying that all DCA's do this, but there are reported incidents on the forum of this happening - correct signature, but wrong address etc.

Just print your name instead of signing it.

weebit

i have a question about this

i have 2 debts at collectors and am pay £65pm between the 2 of them. if i ask for my CCA and they fail to produce it, does that mean i don't need to pay them this £65pm anymore, and instead can use that money to pay off my credit cards who are charging me interest?

if so, that way when i have paid of my cards i can save up a lump sum to offer them at a later date?

...i hope that makes sense

fermi

And to add to what GeorgeUK says (since I missed fatou256's reply), if the debt has been sold at this stage you can ask for a copy of the "deed of assignment" but the DCA is NOT required under law to supply it under the CCA74.

If a debt has been sold on, then you should have been sent a "notice of assignment" which is a letter informing you of the sale of the debt. The "deed" is the legal agreement between the original creditor and the buyer, and since most of these are done in bulk they may well contain private information regarding other peoples affairs.

The only time that a creditor must produce a copy of the deed, is if it is required by the court (on your request) to prove the legal sale/assignment of the debt.

So at this stage you can ask for a copy of the "deed of assignment", but they are not obliged to supply it and failure to provide it does not put them in default of the CCA request.

GeorgeUK

weebit - If they fail to produce a CCA then you do not need to make any payments towards the debt, until it is produced.

There are however some debts that do not require a CCA, such as an overdraft, so therefore this kind of debt you may not be able to stop.

more info here
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=578486