Continuing Health Care - Preparing to fight PCT's decision

ukmaggie45

Very sorry to hear of your Uncle's passing. I do hope you won't be forced to pursue the matter further.

May I also echo monkeyspanner and hope that you can continue to help others.

We too had intended to go down the CHC route, but both my parents died (July and September last year) before we were able to.

Best wishes to you and your family at a sad time.

weanie

I am very sorry to hear of your uncle's passing.
I agree with Monkeyspanner that it is unacceptable that the energies of relatives with a seriously ill family member should be diverted in such a way. I greatly admire your own strength and persistance and thank you for sharing your experiences for the benefit of others.
Right is on your side.

malid

Thank you all for your kind words. I will post if I can be of any assistance.

I thought it would be useful to encourage people to pursue Power of Attorney themselves rather than use a solicitor.

I started this process with my uncle some time ago and as long as you follow the instructions, you should not have a problem. People need to consider completing POA forms when they are mentally fit. They just fill them in with relevant witnesses; attorneys etc, then file them away in a safe place. Only when the time is right - when the individual concerned feels they need someone to act on their behalf (or, if the individual has become mentally incapacitated, one of the attorneys) registers the POA so that it is a legal document. This process will take a minimum of 6 weeks and usually more. If people wait until the individual concerned becomes very ill, this becomes far more difficult.

My apologise to the Board Guides if this is too off the subject and hence in the wrong place.

weanie

I totally agree about the POA advice. We waited and actually put it off because we knew that it would be a difficult subject to bring up with my mother. We decided that the appropriate time had arrived in Octoberof last year. This coincided with the change in the law and the cost and difficulty had increased. We did use a solicitor to help but so much of the work had to be done by ourselves anyway and the solicitor was new to the new format too and so really and truly we would have been far better off both financially and from the point of being in control of the applicstion if we had not used the solicitor at all. The first application was not correctly filed in and the second application took from the end of March to the middle of August this year for the POA to be granted.
thank you Malid for your posts.

allthatmularky

Just come across this thread - when looking for details of power of attorney.

A bit of background - I have an uncle who has advanced Parkinson's and is currently in hospital but has been assessed as needing nursing care in a nursing home.
He was previously looked after by his sister - with various helpers from the local authority - his sister is now too unwell to look after him, and we have been advised by the nursing staff/social workers that he now requires 24 hr nursing help.

Just starting to look into homes/finances etc and all a little confusing - the social worker tells me that his DLA would no longer be available and since he has above the £22250 in savings he would be expected to fund his care.

I presume because of his medical needs the PCT would fund the proportion deemed necessary for his nursing needs.

Any information on the CHC (if he might be eligible for any funding) and the power of attorney procedures would be most help - I've just 'skimmed' this thread as yet - will read it in more detail when I get a chance.

monkeyspanner

allthatmularky wrote: »

Just come across this thread - when looking for details of power of attorney.

A bit of background - I have an uncle who has advanced Parkinson's and is currently in hospital but has been assessed as needing nursing care in a nursing home.
He was previously looked after by his sister - with various helpers from the local authority - his sister is now too unwell to look after him, and we have been advised by the nursing staff/social workers that he now requires 24 hr nursing help.

Just starting to look into homes/finances etc and all a little confusing - the social worker tells me that his DLA would no longer be available and since he has above the £22250 in savings he would be expected to fund his care.

I presume because of his medical needs the PCT would fund the proportion deemed necessary for his nursing needs.

Any information on the CHC (if he might be eligible for any funding) and the power of attorney procedures would be most help - I've just 'skimmed' this thread as yet - will read it in more detail when I get a chance.

I'm not sure about the DLA but if he is fundung his own care he should be eligable for Attendance Allowance if aged 65 or over, at one of two levels £67/week being the higher. AA is not means tested so you should make an application. I believe there may be a 6 month waiting period. Attendance allowance is not payable after the first 4 weeks of a hospital stay or Continuing healthcare funding.

Continuing healthcare funding from the PCT is only available if the patient's primary need is health rather than domestic. I strongly advise you to get up to speed with information on CHC prior to your Uncle being discharged and to make sure that a full CHC assessment is done. Have a look at my previous postings in this thread for links you should find helpful. Hospital discharge proceedures should include an initial assessment of the need for CHC funding but this normally results in the patient being assessed as not requiring CHC funding and sometimes contrary to proceedure is not carried out at all. Patients representative can request a full CHC assessment. If successful with CHC funding the patients care home fees are covered in full irrespective of their financial situation.

If not successful with CHC funding then the need for a NHS funded Nursing supplement of £101/week should be assessed.

As your Uncle is self-funding the Social Services will probably be less than helpful and will not want to promote CHC funding to you as this will make them less than popular with their contacts in the NHS. They will more than likely advise you your Uncle will not get CHC. Ignore them if they do. CHC funding is hidden as much as possible from the public and given minimal publicity as it is so expensive but you should be aware that many PCT's regularly underspend their funding in this area of care by avoiding paying out and use the funds for other areas of their spending. Only the most sick will be successful without a lot of effort being made by their representatives.

If your Uncle has any savings in joint accounts, only half will count as his savings. Also certain types of non-interest yeidling asset based assurance bonds do not count towards his savings. If you are counting his home as part of his savings and he has less than £22250 in actual savings then the council can be approached to contribute towards his care home fees for the first 12 weeks of his stay whilst the home is marketed for sale. During this period he should be assessed as though the home asset does not exist and the council contribute accordingly. Alternatively the council can be approached to put a charge over the value of the home and pay the care home fees against the charge.

Savvy_Sue

And if his sister is still living in the home (or expected to return to it) and she's over ? 65 ? then it's not normally a requirement to sell it, is it?

monkeyspanner

Yes if a close relative aged 60 (sister is counted as close) or over lives in the patients home then the value of the property should be disregarded. See page 21 Section 3.12 of this fact sheet for further information.
http://www.counselandcare.org.uk/assets/library/documents/16_Care_Home_Fees_Paying_them_in_England.pdf

There are also certain circumstances where the value of the home can be disregarded if the patient is not the beneficial owner of the property. i.e. their name may be on the deeds but they have not contributed to the purchase or upkeep of the property. Or only part of the value of the property should be assessed as they have only paid part of the cost. For instance if the home was formerly a council or housing association property and it was purchased using funds provided by a relative then only the discount applied for the right to buy can be counted as the patient's asset. See section starting on page 15 of the above for a lot more detail.

Joint ownership also can affect the valuation as it is normally considered that you cannot sell half a house. However councils have been using defered payments and charges over the assets to get around this.

weanie

I would strongly urge anyone charged with the responsibility of assisting a relative with nursing home funding to read items posted on this site.
The contributions by Monkeyspanner and others are invaluable in order to gain some understanding of options and challenges ahead.
I have attempted some basic research in this area and these references are my lesson notes. I am ever grateful for this sharing of information and experiences.
Good luck to all and thanks.

allthatmularky

Thanks - Monkeyspanner, Savvy Sue and Weanie - god, that sounds like a motley crew .

Being doing a bit of research through the Age Concern fact sheets so I knew about the house being disregarded (his sister lives in it).

Will take your advice and have a more detailed/wider read of the posts and the links that you have provided. I will post more as the situation requires - but thanks very much for all help so far.