Continuing Health Care - Preparing to fight PCT's decision

ukmaggie45

Hi Folks,

I only just found this (dated 19 May) but thought it might be relevant to this thread.

When families must pick up the bill for long-term care

I don't think it adds to anything we don't know already, but it's interesting to see what the press says about this stuff.

There is also an article on living with dementia today.

Good luck to all of you who are fighting for your (and parents) rights!

Maggie

Errata

Thanks Maggie, you've reminded me to post this link on ageing Britain - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/series/ageing-britain

Errata

Green Flamingo - you asked about "Has anyone any experience of Care Plans - who is involved, what is required, tips etc.? "

This link gives an example of a care plan for a resident of an older peoples care home. HTH

http://www.cornfordhouse.co.uk/care-plans-online.html

cohentb

SUCCESS.

Thought I would let people know that I have just won a case going back to 2002. So keep taking the excellent advice from Monkeyspanner ,Malid and others and don't give up. If their are others struggling with old cases going through the Ombudsmans office and other procedures I'm happy to try and help.

Can anyone tell me if they have managed to claim back solicitors fees- we have the bills? We ran out of money in 2005 so they did not see the case through.

We never expected it to go on so long so did not keep receipts of postage , travel and 'office' expenses. Is there any chance of us claiming without them? I'd be grateful for any advice. Thanks

greenflamingo_2

Hi Cohentb
our "ex" solicitor costing us £4,500 for nothing we couldnt have done ourselves told us that the NHS had changed the rules so that you couldnt claim back legal fees. Needless to say we dropped him like a stone after that comment. If anyone knows differently pse post as our case is still ongoing.

malid

cohentb wrote: »

SUCCESS.

Thought I would let people know that I have just won a case going back to 2002. So keep taking the excellent advice from Monkeyspanner ,Malid and others and don't give up. If their are others struggling with old cases going through the Ombudsmans office and other procedures I'm happy to try and help.

Can anyone tell me if they have managed to claim back solicitors fees- we have the bills? We ran out of money in 2005 so they did not see the case through.

We never expected it to go on so long so did not keep receipts of postage , travel and 'office' expenses. Is there any chance of us claiming without them? I'd be grateful for any advice. Thanks

I am delighted for you Cohentb. It's a hard slog but worth it to achieve fairness.

On the issue of claiming back solicitors' fees, I have tried to find some positive information for you but with no luck. I guess it may not be possible because it was your choice to use a solicitor but I may be wrong and a forum member may have better information for you and others.

I urge all of those fighting for CHC funding to try to do it themselves; it is possible as long as you follow all the advice on this site and others.

I assume that without receipts, you won' t be able to claim other expenses but it may be worth writing a letter noting your expenses over the years just to see what they say.

cohentb

Thanks Malid and Greenflamingo. I agree that the solicitor did not do anything we couldn't have done ourselves. If you can it really is best to do the challenging yourself. I will probably send in the bills and see what happens.

monkeyspanner

Hi Cohentb
Thanks for posting your success and very well done.
Sorry I can't give you an answer about solicitors fees but our expenses claim was largely without receipts and went unchallenged.

For BT I just had a look at our past bills online where there is a facility for sorting by tel. number and just added up everything with the relevant STD codes, unfortunately I think they only keep 3 quarters live online.
The travelling for panel meetings etc. I calulated the mileage and used the standard civil service mileage allowance (sorry can't remember what that was offhand).
I did have receipts for photocopying and a record of all correspondence so could calculate that pretty accurately. We also asked for interest on the retrospective payment and got it but at their standard rate which was ok at the time but not brilliant. It didn't amount to a huge amount but I wasn't in the mood for being generous by the time we had finally had the correct decision.

It took us a while to get the payment but only a matter of about 3 weeks.

cohentb

Hi Monkeyspanner

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll get my old diaries out and work out the travel to meetings and calculate as you did. At the moment only being offered actual care fees. Has anyone ever managed an apology - after all this time we feel this to be important?

CHCscandal

cohentb wrote: »

Hi Monkeyspanner

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll get my old diaries out and work out the travel to meetings and calculate as you did. At the moment only being offered actual care fees. Has anyone ever managed an apology - after all this time we feel this to be important?

You are entitled to full redress at county court rate 8% the pct will try to tell you otherwise but it is not true.
We have just received a further sum, as they originally would only pay rpi, of over £4k and a further sum of over £3.5k as an ex gratia payment for costs, fees and expenses so far and our case isn't settled yet.

We too go back to 2002 until MiL passed away in jan 08.
the case was maladminsitrated by the LA & PCT.
On discoeriung this in 07 7 instigating an appeal, we have had a first period found eligible, 2002 to 03, then when she went into a 24 hr nh they say no she was stable for 2 yrs 9mths to aug 06, then the rest has been found as eligible as all her needs 'totalised' into an intense need due to deterioration until pasing away in jan 08.

I will post the relevant sites for redress doc if I am allowed as a newbie.
the sites won't post, so pelase join them together if you wish to check them out.

Whilst the debate goes on about who should pay for care fees, especially if one owns a property, a reminder, the law remains unchanged from 1946 nat assist act and the 1948 nhs creation, all else brought in is merely directions and guidance, fettered locally even the new framework oct 07.

If successive gov'ts want to change the law to a charging USA style 'kaiser permanente' regime, as they are curently working together within the nhsuk to serrupticiously introduce, then fine, but until then it is about justice and rights not about money and inheritance.

They, La/NHS, want it if you have it and as it proved they wilol do anything to get it if they can.
& provide poor service for it when charged anyway.

The Govt, NHS/PCT/TRUSTS/LA are all controlled by FUNDING, money issues, where they want to/have to direct it, paid for by our working people's tax.
They, NHS/LA do not want to direct it towards the vulnerable old and / or not so old, ill and infirm.
If homes are owned or someone has means then means tested they will be for services that are rightfully free at the point of need.
As posted on this thread previously about the system in place 50's 60' 70's etc, it was geriatric wards attached to a hospital or a converted workhouse all the same, funded by the NHS as continuing health care.

Nothing has changed in the law, except Mrs t, creatively selling off the council houses, knowing that 1 out of 5 of these renters & potential SS free care receivers, either at home or in care, are now home owners after her legislation, not repealed by new labour, they and all other 'affluent baby boomers' would be charged for 'care' and have 'care' positioned as a two level system, one for the have, payers and one for the 'have not' non payers, social service clients, in fact nothing in most 'care' is different, they all get the same, some pay some don't.

The DoH was found to have maladministrated the redress of March 07 by the ombudsman,as well as the whole system introduced since 'coughlan' 1999, especially the rncc payment which is a gap filelr when the alwe allwoed for no gaps, there is either free care for all if ill, diseased or disbabled or means test if only social care , washing dressing, household chores, emals on wheels etc is required.

2 docs enclosed hopefully referring to a doc GA2000 for ex gratia payments and redress for wrong doings and maladministration.
the new document to encompass it all is MPM managing public money.

Not able to post these as a newbie, they shoudl be able to be deciphered if anyone is interested.


Ombudsman doc maladministration of the DoH:
o m b u d s m a n . o r g . uk / pdfs/continuing_care_funding_redress_HC386.pdf

DoH redress doc for cont care:-

d h .g o v . u k / e n /

Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_073094

MPM: site and annex for remedy:-
h m-t r e a s u r y .g o v .u k /d / m p m

_annex4.14.pdf

h m-t r e a s u r y g o v u k/

psr_mpm_index.htm