Continuing Health Care - Preparing to fight PCT's decision

monkeyspanner

Thanks for letting us know, it is always good to hear when someone has a successful outcome. As the Welsh system is different from the English perhaps you could keep an eye on this thread and contribute from your experience when you can. Best of luck with the retrospective claim. Remember to ask for interest and expenses.

lesdew

Thanks for that advice as well. I will certainly keep in touch as I move along with the retrospective claim.

netsmurfit

monkeyspanner wrote: »

You might find this site useful for background and different experiences of the various systems.
http://www.gpss.tripoduk.com/nhscare/

Just to let you all know, the above link has been taken down due to outside interference cannot give details but here are some other working link's

Admin if this is not allowed please remove all links , These sites are in the public domain and are designed to help people in their fight with The N.H.S Social Services local P.C.T'S our campaigne group have a wealth of information and many wins against unlawfull denial for 100% N.H.S Fully funded continuing care

with your forum here along with our campainge group we aim to educate as many people as is possible, I sincerly hope you can see that we are fighting the same legal cause in the battle of unlawful denial for continuing care for those who have a Primary health need

the 1st link is our new message board, please bear with us as it is still undergoing development
HERE
http://freenursingcare.findtalk.net/index.htm

2nd link replacement for your above link
http://gpss.npl.com/nhscare/

we hope to help others here on this forum

regards
netsmurfit

Stephen_Johnson_2

Hi,

New here. Just to give you hope I have just won the case for my brother Rod who was unfortunately only 54 years of age when he died (£50,000) but it took me 3 years. There are other helpful sites out there, as follows-

http://freenursingcare.findtalk.net/forum.htm
www.continuingcarecampaign.info
www.nhscare.info
www.fightthebureaucracy.co.uk

The Core Principles of the NHS can be summed up as follows: To provide care which is free at the point of need, meets the needs of everyone and is based on a patient's clinical need not their ability to pay.

Tony Blair said at the Labour Party Conference in 1997 that he didn't want his children brought up in a country where pensioners had to sell their homes to pay for long term care.

Since then approx 700,000 homes have been sold to pay for care.

This applies to sick people of all ages. These people have paid taxes and national insurance all their lives, then suddenly they get taxed again when they become ill by funding their own long term care. What an absolute disgrace!!!!!

IF YOU HAVE AN ILLNESS OR DISABILITY YOU ARE ENTITLED TO FULLY FUNDED NHS CONTINUING HEALTH CARE UNDER THE NATIONAL HEALTH SERVICE ACT 1946 and Coughlan (Court of appeal 1999).

The NHS continue to flout the law of the land with their cheating, lying and delaying tactics. I have had every underhand tactic in the book thrown at me including inprisonment for 1 day because of a purgered statement by one of the continuing care team. Charming.

Kind Regards,

Stephen (Johnson).

monkeyspanner

Hi Stephen
Many thanks for taking the time to post you are obviously very busy trying to raise awareness of the CHC funding issue.

The figures would suggest that the new DST has caused the best and worst PCT's to move towards more average levels of making CHC awards but there are still substantial differences in the number of people per 100,000 of population receiving CHC funding in different PCT areas. It seems to me that the DST is really misnamed because it only tries to standardise the assessment system and does not give any clear guidance as to what level of assessment would indicate a primary healthcare need. Therefore there is still scope for PCT's to bias their decision making process. Any thoughts?

Trebor16

Hello,

I'm another member of the forum mentioned by Netsmurfit and Stephen Johnson. I too have been involved in a battle with NHS Suffolk since July 2007 over who funds my father's nursing home costs. My father is 85 and he had a stroke in April 1996 which affected the left side of his body. Over the years he has deteriorated to the point where he was diagnosed with vascular dementia and he had to be placed in an EMI nursing home in September 2007. He has the following health issues:-

Vascular dementia. This has caused him to be very aggressive and abusive towards people and his short term memory is very poor.

Mobility. He has no mobility at all and has to be hoisted in and out of bed and can not wash, dress or go to the toilet without assistance.

Skin integrity. He is at high risk of skin breakdown and needs to be closely monitored.

He is incontinent.

He is on a high dosage of anti psychotic medication to control his aggressive behaviour.

NHS Suffolk gave us the usual BS when it was decided that he could not be accomodated any longer in the very sheltered accomodation flat he was sharing with my mother. They said his needs were "social" rather than "health" needs. We have disputed this and have fought it.

During the battle NHS Suffolk labelled me as an unreasonably persistent behaviour and then threatened to take legal action against me if I continued to write to them in an "aggressive and derogatory" manner.

I challenged them to take legal action against me and if they didn't I would take legal action against them for harassment.

Their Chief Executive was eventually forced to make a full apology to me for labelling me as unreasonably persistent and the threat of legal action.

It has been a tough battle but If I had to fight it again I wouldn't hesitate. The NHS are ripping off thousands of people across the country and unlawfully placing them with local authority social services departments who then plunder the family finances until they have been bled dry.

If anyone finds themselves in the situation of having a family member going into hospital who are then told that they have to go into a home, make the following demands:-

That a fully funded continuing care assessment is carried out by the NHS.
That Social Services have no involvement with the case at all until it has gone through the entire NHS procedure.

Do not sign any documents put in front of you by the Social Services. Do not disclose any financial information to them. Don't believe a word they say as they will tell you lies about the situation.

It's a hard slog but in my case it was worth it as they eventually agreed to fund my father's care in full, but only after going to an independent review panel. I still have to be on my guard as they are hoping my father will have a miraculous recovery, as they intend to assess him again in July. But I will be ready for them.

margaretclare

I worked for many years in the NHS and was - until my registrations expired - a qualified nurse and midwife with experience in community nursing, so I think I speak from some knowledge.

I cannot imagine how someone with the health profile detailed by Trebor16 above can be said to have only 'social' as opposed to 'nursing' needs.

A stroke is a medical condition. Strokes may be commoner in the older age-groups but they cannot be just written off as a 'social problem'. A stroke destroys part of the brain, as the current TV advertising campaign is designed to show. Repeated mini-strokes, TIAs or transient ischaemic attacks, destroy a little bit more of the brain each time and this is usually what results in vascular dementia, although there is always the possibility for a major stroke as well as the TIAs. (NB: My first husband may have been fortunate to die aged 58 after having at least 2 strokes and several TIAs as well as coronary heart disease - he wouldn't have liked the probable future scenario for himself). It is possible to recover from a stroke, but only if diagnosis and treatment occurs early enough and there is always the possibility of another stroke.

Anyone with the degree of immobility and incontinence described by Trebor16 should be assessed using the Waterlow Scale, and this is a nursing tool for assessing the risk of skin breakdown.

Anyone on medication to control psychotic behaviour should come under the Mental Health Acts - a danger to himself and others. This cannot be called a 'social need'. He could not live in any type of domestic situation because no one would have the knowledge to administer his medication and ensure it was taken.

How can it be a 'social' need to be physically incapable of movement and have to be hoisted in and out of bed? Using a hoist requires training, and this training is specified under the Health & Safety legislation. Incorrect use of hoist can damage both patient and carer.

I sympathise.

Trebor16

Margaret,

Sadly that is how the NHS work. They lie to us in the hope we will believe them (which most still do) and then let the social services leaches latch on and bleed the family dry.

I still vividly remember the first multidisciplinary meeting we had about my father back in June 2007. He had been admitted into hospital with a urinary tract infection and whilst in hospital his mobility went completely. He had been living in a very sheltered accomodation flat with my mum, but the management said they would be unable to cope with him anymore.

At the meeting the social worker started to go on about us being self funders and gave us a list of nursing homes and suggested that we start looking for a suitable one. At this point I asked the following question:-

"So, you're not going to carry out an assessment to see if my father is eligible for fully funded continuing care by the NHS then?"

There followed a long pause, quickly followed by the collective clunks of a number of jaws hitting the floor!!!:D I had been doing my research and I knew that the NHS should be funding my father, but I was also aware that NHS Suffolk had one of the poorest records in the country, so I knew I had a battle on my hands.

monkeyspanner

Thanks Margaretclare
It seems so obvious doesn't it, with all those medical problems why would you even need to reach for the DST (decision support tool) to decide if the patient's primary care need is medical, but unfortunately the NHS and LA staff involved persist in saying to the few people aware of NHS CHC funding "you need to be at death's door to get CHC funding so don't bother" or something similar.

Part of the problem is the all or nothing nature of the funding system which sets up a conflict between the PCT and the patient or their representatives. I believe most people would accept that a proportion of their care costs are domestic and be reasonably happy to make a contribution. (Setting aside the issue of having to sell property to fund care). But for many patients their medical needs costs should be covered by the NHS and the current nursing allowance is too small and simplistically applied to meet the needs of many care home residents.

Trebor
Thanks for your contribution. Apart from anything else it is a requirement for the discharge team under CRAG to carry out an assessment. Unfortunately I too believe there is a deliberate policy to keep the CHC funding system from the public and to use any means to avoid paying up so that only the most persistent and well informed claimant will succeed. This is particularly the case where it is known there are funds or assets available to make the patient a potential self funder. Then they wonder why poeple get annoyed at the blocking tactics. On the lighter side it is amusing to note that some LA Social Services are also using the CHC system to push the funding back onto the NHS in the cases where LA financial assistance may be needed. This means that in some areas the usually cosy arrangement between the LA and NHS is breaking down.:rotfl:

netsmurfit

@ monkeyspanner:T

many thanks for allowing us to post on your forum as we are in the same battle as others here, please feel free to pay us a visit @ http://freenursingcare.findtalk.net/index.htm

Together we can share a wealth of information to reach others who sadly day in day out are being ripped off by this unlawful scam, Perpretrated by the N.H.S And local authorities Social Services

Regards
mick