oxbridge?

Helix

ryandj wrote: »

O right - can students take a loan out for the fees from the students loan company?

Yeah, you can take a loan out for the full tuition fees no matter what your income is.

digsby202

My daughter is in her 2nd year at Cambridge and we faced similar problems.
I returned to work after 20 years of being a stay-at-home Mum to help fund her time there.
She is having the time of her life, she was a state school pupil , granted it was Grammar and a lot depends on which college you apply to. Some are very pro private school, usually the older more traditional colleges, but others are the opposite. I would say a majority of my daughters friends were state school educated.
As for the costs, as someone said, Cambridge is very heavily subsidised. For example most colleges have their own dining facilities which are cheap and all the student entertainment ( bars, theatres) are college based, plus if you are in the centre of Cambridge there are no transport costs (bike). I would say the main expense is books, and the work load is very intense, the terms are only 8 weeks, the students do work very hard.

I would say my daughters main expense happens about now, when the Ball tickets go on sale, they cost on average £100.00 each and are very hard to come by, I know my daughter plans to go to 2 balls and that means 2 ball gowns . Its much easier for a guy, they only need one dinner suit !

Now she is there and happier than I have ever known the cost is unimportant, I would work all day and night to get her through. The rewards at the end of it are immense.

I'm holding my breath for the next move though - Harvard has been mentioned and that will take a lottery win !

I do hope your son takes the opportunity, he will never look back.
Best of luck to him

Lov d

Voyager2002

Teacher2301 wrote: »

Don't worry about the costs though, like other posters it will cost the same as other universities but if your son joins loads of clubs, the cost can increase and don't forget about peer pressure - students who are rich have no money worries and will spend alot (and are attracted to Oxbridge). Therefore it might be an idea to discuss the idea of budgets whilst at (any) university and the importance of logging on to this website (ok maybe not).

Actually, peer pressure to spend a lot of money is greatest at the universities that are full of wealthy 'Oxbridge' rejects: Exeter, Durham, and others. Those who did not get in have to show off in other ways: those who are there have made it and don't have to prove anything. Besides, the work-load is intense, extra-curricular activities are intense, and so the time and energy remaining for spending money are somewhat limited.

In some ways, issues about money could well be less of a problem at Oxford or Cambridge than at many other universities.

broke_student111

Hi,

I am relitively new to the forums but would just like to add my advice. I was also given the oxbridge application forms by my college back in the day, but failed to get a place.

I do not think money will be a big worry if your son does decide to apply. Term times are much, much shorter than other universities (despite workloads being much higher!), so that is less money spent on rent / food / beer / general living expenses. I believe the oxbridge means-tested support is much more generous than most universities (if I remember correctly, it works out to about £3,000 a year), so if your son was awarded the full loan and grant, he would recieve about £9,500 a year after paying tuition fees (at least for Cambridge).

Also, because term-times are shorter, more time can be spent doing full- or part-time work during vacation periods. I think there is around 30 weeks worth of holiday time. Assuming a part-time weekly wage of £150/wk after tax, this equates to around an extra £4,500p.a. - not bad! Of course bear in mind that part-time minimum-wage jobs for students can be hard to come across due to competition. (I should know, been searching for almost a year without any luck before getting a job!) Please also remember that the workload is much, much more demanding than other universities so this much income, or even a job, may be out of the question.

As for whether your son wants to apply - essentially its down to him. It's not for everybody, and during my small visit there I got the impression that the place was very stuffy and had that 'public school' atmosphere. Also, whilst the students on 'visitor duty' were very helpful and nice, the college itself had made no effort to direct applicants to where they should be - there were no signposts, relevant maps or people when you needed them, and the place I had to register in was the other side of a deserted courtyard, through a closed door marked "No entry to general public". These sort of problems don't really instill me with a lot of confidence about the attitude of staff towards undergraduates, which is sadly a vastly-underrated aspect when comparing universities (many academic staff will make their teaching efforts a distant second compared to research, which has far greater financial and image-enhancing potential for the university).

Of course this is my own, biased opinion (I didn't get the place after all) and if your son does get a place then chances are that he will have a fantastic time overall, make a lot of great friends and get a first-rate education (after all, this is what it is all about). The work WILL be very stressful, but if your son can get through the three years and come out with a semi-decent degree, he will be able to get almost any relevant graduate-level job he wants without too much effort.

As for the application procedure, these are the main things that are considered:

[I have written this as if you are the one applying - it just makes the whole thing easier to type out]

- Examination grades
> GCSE
>AS / A2 module results for subjects already studied
>Other relevant quals (music grades, additional high-level courses taken)
> Predicted grades for A-level
- Personal Statement
> Books!
> Hobbies/Interests!
> Extracurricular activities!
- Referees
- Portfolio
- Entry tests
- INTERVIEW!!!

Unfortunately, the part that has the most weighting is the interview, (the bit I c***ed up!). Grades do not have a huge role to play unfortunately, as long as they meet the requirements of the course. Exams that have known results (GCSE, AS) have more weighting than future exams (A-levels) simply because every teacher and headmaster would want their pupils to go to Oxbridge and would 'stretch the truth' with their pupils. This is the same reason why referees also have little weighting. Beware, they will also require the PERCENTAGE MARKS for each module of the AS, so if there is a particular paper that had a lower score than the others this will be picked up on - so prepare for questions on these topic to be asked at interview! Of course, the interviewers understand that there are other factors contributing to low exam marks so it isn't a great deal if some are quite low compared to others.

The personal statement has quite a high weighting compared to the others, it is also the section I disliked the most as it requires you to write a short passage about yourself whilst sounding like an arrogant t**t and making out that it is your one and only desire in life to study <enter subject name>. Sort of like an extended 'about me' section on a CV. Plenty of advice on google if you search for 'UCAS personal statement'. What they like to see in there is:

- Books! - list major books you have read relating to the subject you want to study, along with something about one of them that you particularly liked, or has inspired you to choose your deisred course. Don't worry, this can be made up as long as you pick believale and suitable examples, and ACTUALLY read the books before the interview - it is one of the interviewer's favourite topics. This section is an absolute must if you are planning on doing an "artsy" subject. Also include popular magazines or jounals that relate to your chosen subject (again, READ them, the interviewers love catching people out!)

- Extracurricular activities\ hobbies \ interests - again these are a requirement. Because oxbridge face government pressure to increase the demographic of students that apply, and the supposed decrease in the difficulty of the A-level, they are placing more emphasis on extracurric. activities. Not great for antisocial nerdy types like myself who want to apply! They are looking for things like sport (esp. rowing, rugby, football, etc.), music potential, drama experience, voluntary work, leadership examples, relevant part-time work. The sort of things you would expect to do in an afterschool club.

Unfortunately, even though there is more weighting on this there still isn't much, simply because most teachers will take the time to re-write and alter student's statements to give them the best oppurtunity possible. Again there is plenty of advice out there for oxbridge applicants, just ask Google.

Entry tests were rarely used and were of little significance at the time of making my application (over two years ago). Mine involved taking an onscreen IQ test. Certain subjects do have more tests with higher weightings, medicine being an example. Similarly, for artsy subjects, a portfolio is required which will have a selection of previously submitted essays, etc. The school or the internet can advise what sort of work is required and give some advise.

The dreaded interview is the worst, and most important, part of the whole process even though it lasts for around fifteen minutes. The style of the interview can vary between subjects, for me it was just a series of mathematical and scientific problems where I had to explain my reasoning behind my answers - unfortunately, much like a driving test, simple excersises become much, much harder when every action and word is being analysed and judged by an external examiner you have never met before in your life. Different subjects may involve 'discussion' based questions for art subjects, opinions about current affairs for subjects related to politics and also the traditional 'why would you like to study for us?' type interview. Plenty of advice on t'internet and I would be very suprised if the school does not help out in any way.

Of course there is always a concern that the students from public schools will take most of the places. Despite Oxbridge's determination to make us think otherwise, I still believe this to be the case. Public schools invest a lot of money in 'oxbridge training', and typically make all the required steps to push the selected students towards oxbridge from a much earlier age than those from comprehensives. If an applicant has family / friend-of-family / headteacher connections with the interviewer then of course this could also skew favour towards the applicant. However, it now can work in the opposite direction, with increased pressure from the government Oxbridge are set 'targets' to accept certain proportions of students from state-funded schools. The intake can be skewed in favour of sate-school applicants and those of low-income backgrounds so that the college can meet their intake targets. So its not all bad news!

One final point I should mention is that of colleges. Oxford and Cambridge are divided into around thirty individual colleges each, which are similar to school houses. They form the basis of where you will live, the tutors you have and the people who you will go to classes with. When you apply, its best to choose a college rather than do an 'open appication' (where you get a college chosen at random) as it is believed to give applicants more of a chance (shows they are more commited to their selected college and can waffle on about how 'great' their college is at interview). What I personally would recommend - even though it is going to go against everything you are going to be told and I will probibily be told off for even daring to say it - is to find some good mates in your situation who are doing similar subjects and then picking a university and college that sound good to everyone. Simple reason being that you are going to be going for it together and can give support/advice/help each other out if necessary. When it comes to interview day, you'll have your mates with you rather than waiting out alone. And should you and one or more of your mates be sucessful then at least there will be people you know when you get there. Probibly best to steer clear of the 'big name' colleges unless your results are exceptionally high, because - as you can imagine - they are going to have the highest number of aplicants and also the brightest applicants as well.

After you apply, there are three possible outcomes:

Conditional Offer
Pooling - You weren't quite good enough to make a straight conditional, but the college thought you were good enough to see if another college would like to take you on. This process can take some time, and I believe you get the results around Feb time.
Rejection

If the outcome is unsucessful, then try not to take it personally. A lot of the time it can be a complete lottery who gets a place and who doesn't. (Putting into context, the top five students in my college all failed to get places but eleven out of the twenty-odd who applied, did).

I wish you and your son the best of luck in the application!

digsby202

If I can throw something into the ring regarding interviews ( at Cambridge ).
mY DAUGHTERS DAY BEGAN AT 8:30 am with a written 'cold' examination ( She's doing English). This was followed by an interview with two fellows who basically pulled apart what she had just written. The second interview was with head of faculty and more subject based. The third interview was with the Dean of the college and more personal statement based. There were no trick questions and she came away having really enjoyed the experience. The whole day ended at 6:30pm. If it is possible , stay in a local B&B the night before, it makes the whole day less stressful, but book well in advance, as soon as you know the interview dates.
The interview with two fellows who tore apart her written exam was done on the 'good cop bad cop' level.
If you go on the Cambridge website you can download mock interviews.

Everyones experience is different. My daughters friend turned up for an interview for History an hour late, to discover she was being interviewed by David Starkey. She got in, they must have admired her nerve!

Hope this helps, and best of luck


Love D

BruceyBonus

I applied to Oxford this year (for 08/09) but had an interview and was rejected.

It was all a good experience - but quite a lot of hassle. Firstly they wanted a separate application form - in addition to the UCAS form - with an extra £10 fee. I was informed of my interview just 8 days before the interview. They said I might be needed for one day, maybe two or maybe three - but they would provide accommodation and food. I had two interviews and they had finished with me by the second morning.

I'm not sure what the "Oxbridge test" is, as I never took one but I know some subjects do require exams to be taken.

Don't worry about the cost - most (good) unis charge the maximum fees (which is £3145 for 08/09). The cost of living is slightly higher in Oxford/Cambridge but I believe they have bursaries to help with things like this.

virgin_moneysaver

thank you so much everyone for the time taken to reply & all the info given - I think I'll get him to read this thread as to read it first hand it may mean more than me recounting it 2nd hand so to speak

Fen1

If your son manages to get to interview, ask the porter in college about shops for second-hand books and gowns - it will save a packet. They'll know where they are and the best deals. Also ask in the union about students selling on their goods.

I don't know about Cambridge, but in Oxford the more modern built colleges further out from the town centre tend to be much more relaxed, some having cafeterias instead of formal hall etc. It depends on what your son would be happy with. If he's not happy with formality, I would suggest he veers away from somewhere such as Christ Church (very very formal).

A tip for interview would be "calm, knowledgeable and enthusiastic". THe interviewers have dozens of candidates in a day, all of equal academic standing ( they wouldn't be there otherwise). They are actually trying to weed out the nutters, the potential over-wrought suicide risks, parentally-hothoused burn-outs, and the weirdos. WHat they want are people they can live and work with for the next three years, not someone with attitude. I know interviewers, and this is what they are thinking. I also know lots of students from state schools who are at Oxbridge and very happy there.

System

Huh? If there is a charge it won't be more than £50! Surely you can afford to save up £50 between now and next academic year?

The exams are in November(ish) so that leaves you 8 months!

As for the actual university, it won't cost more than any other university. And if you are a low income family, like you said, your son will get a large maintenance grant & bursary to help him pay.

Oxford is an amazing opportunity for your son. If you're worried about fiance, discuss it with him and perhaps he can get a part time job over summer?

melancholly

just to add that cambridge are scrapping their separate application form and the £10 fee in case that is off putting (a decision made to try and reduce any barriers to applicants):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7250533.stm

oxford always seems to have people up for a couple of days for interview, whereas cambridge seems to have a couple of interviews on one day!