Universities bribed £1000 to accept D students! - Are degrees becoming useless?

Cardelia

Lokolo wrote: »

Its all a lie to be honest. The reason people think A Levels are easier is because you can now resit them. In the olden days you had one chance to do well and that was it, whereas now you can decide to pay to retake and up your grade. Well thats what my AI lecturer says.

A lie? I think not. I was in the penultimate year before AS-levels were rolled out across the entire further education curriculum. When I was coming up to my A-level exams, the new syllabus for A-level (those starting September 2000) had just been released. For chemistry, the "new" syllabus contained less than 75% of the work required by the old syllabus. All of the most difficult bits had been removed in order to allow more revision time for the AS exam stage.

I've also got a couple of old module papers from the 1999 A-level exams. Show them to any currrent chemistry A-level candidate and they'll go through it saying "we're not taught that" to a sadly large number of questions. Usually the more difficult ones as well.

For me, it's just not an issue. A-levels have been dumbed down. And I'm not stupid enough to believe that the A-levels I learnt were in any way comparable to those which were set 20 years ago either.

scorpio_princess

Gingernutmeg wrote: »

I don't think that A-Levels are getting easier, but I do think that the way they're approached has changed completely. I took A-Levels about 11 years ago now (just before they introduced the AS/A2 system), and my stepbrother took them about two years ago. Coincidentally, we took the same subjects - English Lit, History and Biology, and although to all intents and purposes the 'content' of the course was the same, the way he was taught was totally different to the way I had been taught. When I took A-Levels, the idea of the school handing out 'mark schemes' would have been viewed almost as a form of cheating, but my brother was given them as standard at the beginning of the course, and guided through EXACTLY what he needed to write to get the grade. It was totally different from the way A-Levels were approached back when I took them ... I don't think I was ever given anything like a mark scheme, and there was no question of those being given to us. Equally, we were never encouraged to use things like revision guides - again, they were a part of my brother's course. He spent a LOT more time than I did doing things like past papers, writing 'perfect' answers ... I didn't and I don't think that it was because my college wasn't 'good', but simply because that wasn't the way A-Levels were approached back then.

Just going off my own experience, when I took A-Levels it felt like getting a good grade was, to a certain extent, down to luck. With my brother, it was definitely down to whether you followed the mark scheme to the letter. I found my A-Levels frustrating because of the lack of breadth and flexibility, but I would have gone mad if I'd been studying them now - it's definitely got worse for the students. I'm not saying that the way I studied A-Levels was great, but there was room for some 'independent thought' back then. I really feel that that's not the case now, and it's a shame. It's not the case that young people are less 'able' and 'intelligent' now, just that they're not given the same opportunities to do anything other than learn HOW to pass an A-Level. Considering that that's pretty much all that's taught from 16-18, it's hardly surprising that students are getting better at passing exams. In a way, the increasing number of A grade A-Levels is an indication that students are still good at learning things, even if the only thing they're given the chance to learn is exam technique ...

This whole system of 'coaching' students for exams seems to be prevalent in the teaching of both GCSEs and A levels. I think this is because of the ridiculous government targets schools have to meet in order to avoid being labelled a bad school. Kids aren't taught stuff just for the sake of learning anymore, because that kind of thing can't be quantified - so instead they press for good exam results rather than an overall learning experience (which would surely be more beneficial for the students involved. It quite frankly sucks, and serves as yet another of example of why schools and education should be run by qualified teachers and education professionals, not governments who blatantly have other agendas. So IF (and that is a big if) exams are getting easier or students are passing exams at higher grades, it's because of this meddling - I don't for one second blame the poor kids.

Lokolo

Cardelia wrote: »

A lie? I think not. I was in the penultimate year before AS-levels were rolled out across the entire further education curriculum. When I was coming up to my A-level exams, the new syllabus for A-level (those starting September 2000) had just been released. For chemistry, the "new" syllabus contained less than 75% of the work required by the old syllabus. All of the most difficult bits had been removed in order to allow more revision time for the AS exam stage.

I've also got a couple of old module papers from the 1999 A-level exams. Show them to any currrent chemistry A-level candidate and they'll go through it saying "we're not taught that" to a sadly large number of questions. Usually the more difficult ones as well.

For me, it's just not an issue. A-levels have been dumbed down. And I'm not stupid enough to believe that the A-levels I learnt were in any way comparable to those which were set 20 years ago either.

It was almost the same for my Computing A Level, I did past papers back to the 1980's (my teacher was ceeeerazy) and since then they have removed a lot of the mathematics involved, but that doesn't mean its a lot easier, theres just no use for it..

Its like an abacus, I am sure a lot of people back then used to find maths a lot more difficult, but new things come in, such as a calculator, the helps, and will therefore make things easier.. are you really against a calculator? (don't take it literally, you should get my point lol)

vixarooni

scorpio princess hit the nail on the head there.

Its all about results, results, results! And it is right that youre taught how to pass exams and not knowing inside out the subject you are being examed on. Its all we are looking for this, this and this and you will need to read this, this and this.

Back in year 12 i had a biology teacher who taught us AS level biology like we were a bunch of scientists in the final year of a degree. He wanted us to read magazines on the subject, do our own reading and research. Needless to say we all came out with E or F grades because the teaching method was sooo out of kilter to how we were used to being taught. Its quite funny because now im in my final year of my degree, i get more help even now than i did back in year 12!

He was a super class bloke though, we may not have got a grasp of biology but he taught us loads on life. Priceless, even though i did get a fail in it!

amaseal

Years ago many of us would have been proud to get a D grade!
My friend with EE is a successful teacher following her degree, 2.2. I got one E and did a full-time HND and have a professional career. My cousin with DE got a First in Mech Eng. We need to stop being snobby about A level grades - it is the student's risk if they don't pass - people certainly mature at University and gain an insight into life when they leave home. My BIL with a PhD certainly didn't get high grades at A level.
Anyway aren't there studies to say that the Public School students do worse in their degrees compared to similarly graded students from Comprehensives?
Our children are sniffy about our O and A Level grades - we did just enough to pass whilst still having a good time - we were young and fairly carefree.
My daughter considers anything other than an A or A* a failure at GCSE!

Zinger549

candyflossing wrote: »

Surely thats what GNVQs and BTecs are for?

What do you mean. You can get to university with a BTEC.

celyn90

candyflossing wrote: »

I mean, there are so many explainations for the increase in As ...the syllabus in most subjects hasn't changed itself ... so I don't see how the actual exams can possibly "get easier" if the content hasn't changed.

The syllabuses have changed significantly over the past ten years for some subjects.

System

Zinger549 wrote: »

What do you mean. You can get to university with a BTEC.

I know someone who is doing engineering at one of the top unis and did not take A-levels, he took an engineering course in college, I'm not sure what exactly, will post it if I find out.

BTEC is listed under 'alternative requirements' in some unis. I'm not sure whether other requirements are needed too though.

celyn90 wrote: »

The syllabuses have changed significantly over the past ten years for some subjects.

In Chemistry (Exexcel) it hasn't changed for 5/6 years, and the changes made in 2000 were simply re-arranging the units, but much of the material remained the same. We were given past papers from 6 years before as practice and they were pretty much the same difficulty level, if not easier, in my opinion.

Gingernutmeg

amaseal wrote: »

Anyway aren't there studies to say that the Public School students do worse in their degrees compared to similarly graded students from Comprehensives?

Yes, there are. There are a number of studies that show that students from independent schools don't necessarily do as well at university as their A-Level grades would suggest they should. It's suggested that this happens because independent schools tend to 'push' children through exams much more than comprehensives do, so independent school students may not necessarily gain the self-discipline and experience of independent study needed to pass a degree. However it's fairly 'controversial' research, and there are lots of other social factors too.

Badger_Lady

I'm hoping to start University this year (at age 25)... I was one of the top students at my Grammar school but I got more and more bored - I didn't put any effort into my GCSE's (I still got 11 A-C's but the teachers shook their heads in disappointment), and I finally dropped out after 1 year of A-level studies (before AS's existed). I've since completed a Diploma in a vocational subject.

So I've been speaking to a few people and I'm fairly convinced that I should be able to get into my chosen course through "blag" - work experience, self-study and portfolio. I've just started working on a project which is very relevant to the degree subject and will demonstrate my talent and knowledge, as well as my determination and willingness to work.

If they turn me away and say "Nope, everyone else needs AAA, so do you", I will be very disappointed... but I suppose not entirely surprised