Credit Card and Pin stolen...

mighell35

this is a bit of advice for people (not that you all need it) from a foolish person...also a querey to anyone in the know..

had my wallet and phone stolen from my place of work..(school)

my pins in my mobile...(bad memory!)...crooks found them!!
so in the hour they had my cards they managed to get £500 from both Halifax and Barclaycard...cash withdrawals at cashpoints....

Halifax saying im liable due to Pin numbers used...
Barclaycard havent said yet....

Halifax said until police investigate im liable....ive given halifax a crime reference number...BUT they want police to contact them to do a thorough investigation...only then "might" they let me off the liablity....

If i am liable...ill have to hold my hands up and cough up!...so this is a warning to others i guess...

how do i stand??

ps646566

Deny that the PIN numbers were in the phone, and say you have no idea how the thieves could have obtained it. The banks have to prove that you were negligent, and unless the phone is recovered intact they won't be able to. If the banks still play hardball take it to the financial ombudsman.

Bokkens

Go and see a solicitor.
The first hour is free.
You are not alone there are Millions of members of the public that write there PIN numbers down,I have over a hundred PINs and computer entry codes I have them all written down.
The problem here is you may have breached the Terms and Conditions have you told "them"(card company) the PIN no.s where in the phone?How do they know you are liable?
It is well doumented on Programmes like Panorama,Newsnight etc that criminals are acessing the banking system without the banks knowledge and stealing money from accounts and cards and a lot of transactions show up as spending in the far East a good solicitor should be able to walk all over the card companies case here.

mighell35

yeah i told the banks....that the pins were in my phone...
as they money was taken first time from cashpoints...

so just owned up..

im pretty sure i am liable...my fault really...just wondered if there was anyway round it...i guess not..

tried telling halifax that in last 10 yrs they have probably "earnt" more than £500 off me in interest payments and its not in their interest to lose a customer....i have threatened to leave...and they would eanr more than £500 off me in the future.....thats when they said they had leeway IF the poilce were doing a full investigation!

arealhighlander

You shouldn't have told them your PINs were in your phone

Who is to say that the thieves got your PIN out of your phone? They have already cracked how to get round Chip and Pin:-
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/saving-and-banking/article.html?in_article_id=425103&in_page_id=7

NickX

It has posted on here that the Banking Code dictates that the customer is only liable for £50 of any fraudulent debt even if they have written the PIN on the actual card.

I suggest that the Bank is not following the Banking Code and needs pressure putting on them to start behaving honourably.

Garetha

If you must record your PINs
- disguise your numbers inside a telephone number.
e.g Halifax PIN 1234
- store as Phone number 'H Owen 01477 432199'
(without the Bold of course!)

But use your own system in case the potential thief reads this

James

Sorry to learn of you experience. I presume your PIN wasn't protected by any form of security on your phone, ie a PIN to view you details?

The only advice yet again I can give is do not use a PIN with a credit card (Unless YOU wish to use it for cash withdrawals - it's not a wise move).

Get yourself Chip & Signature Credit Cards, simply becasue if a crook nicks your card, they can't get cash and you can't be held liable for being negligent with your PIN.

I'd also make a point of reporting it to the police, just in case the Halifax take the easy option and don't do this. (ie, retrieve their loss from you).

You might find the following article by Alan O'Sullivan very interesting:

Fraud Victims, Banks Clash Over Blame!

Good luck

gt94sss2

NickX wrote: »

It has posted on here that the Banking Code dictates that the customer is only liable for £50 of any fraudulent debt even if they have written the PIN on the actual card

The Banking Code doesn't actually say that.

It actually says:

12.11 If you act without reasonable care, and this causes losses, you may be responsible for them. (This may apply if you do not follow section 12.5 or you do not keep to your account’s terms and conditions.)

12.12 Unless we can show that you have acted fraudulently or without reasonable care, your liability for the misuse of your card will be limited as follows.
• If someone else uses your card, before you tell us it has been lost or stolen or that someone else knows your PIN, the most you will have to pay is £50.

The full text is on page 21 of the above link..

Regards
Sunil

NickX

Thanks for posting this, it is rather in contradiction with information supplied by poster SimonGregson in a recent post.

I think the crucial phrase is that you have highlighted is "without reasonable care". This is going to be difficult to quantify, but unfortunately I suspect the banks will deem putting the PIN into a mobile phone kept with the card as "without reasonable care". I will be interested to hear the outcome, hopefully the OP will keep us informed as to how things progress.

gt94sss2

NickX wrote: »

I think the crucial phrase is that you have highlighted is "without reasonable care". This is going to be difficult to quantify, but unfortunately I suspect the banks will deem putting the PIN into a mobile phone kept with the card as "without reasonable care". I will be interested to hear the outcome, hopefully the OP will keep us informed as to how things progress.

Section 12.5 of the Banking Code is called 'Taking Care' and is probably the minimum banks expect you to do - including things like:

- Never write down or record your PIN, password or other security information.
- Always take reasonable steps to keep your card safe and your PIN, password and other security information secret at all times.

Regards
Sunil