Any Ideas - daughter had 4 rejections

Cardelia

freebie_junkie wrote: »

We are of the opinion that if you are actually 'bright' it really doesn't matter what Uni you attend.

Really? So in your eyes a student who achieves a 2:1 in English from Bolton (for example) is no less intelligent than someone who achieves a 2:1 in English from Cambridge? You would rank the two degrees the same in terms of academic rigour?

Of course the choice of university matters. Courses vary wildly between different institutions and it's entirely possible that work which may be good enough for a 2:1 at Bolton wouldn't even get graded at Cambridge. Different universities have different requirements and different standards. Cambridge has some of the highest standards in the world, which is why it's one of the best universities in the world. Bolton doesn't have as high standards, and consequently it isn't one of the best universities in the world. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

digsby202

I agree with Cardelia.

I know how hard my daughter had to work to get into Cambridge and how intensive the course is.

My daughter wants to go into Journalisim, and if I can throw something else into the discussion, just to show how competitive it is and how a lot of it is based not only on talent, but which Uni you are at and connections.
I work in a Court and 2 of our new Admin Assistants graduated with a journalisim degree last year, this is their first job , despite several knockbacks in the journalistic field they are still determined. Their degrees were from Goldsmiths, which is a good Uni.
My daughter joined her student newspaper in week 3 at Cambridge and is now Editor-in-Chief (at 19). She appreciates how competitive the industry is but has worked very hard at producing a 40 page weekly newspaper and magazine along with doing an English degree.
Over the last 2 weeks she has been offered internships at both Sky and the BBC, they approached her, saying it was their job to seek out the talent. Some of her fellow students have appplied numerous times to the BBC for work experience/internships and been turned down (BBC has 20,000 plus applicants a year) - These are talented, intelligent young people and I'm sure they will eventually find their niche. Its well known that employers decend at Oxbridge, and if you have a 2.1 , in whatever subject, they're interested.
My daughter still expects to have knockbacks, but I just wanted to illustrate how competitive it is, and how it does matter where you went to Uni.

If your daughter does take a gap-year she should try and get some experience on her local paper although it will probably be unpaid. She could start submitting articles to papers/magazines in her field of interest and become a bit of a pest so they will remember her.

Love d

freebie_junkie

Cardelia wrote: »

Really? So in your eyes a student who achieves a 2:1 in English from Bolton (for example) is no less intelligent than someone who achieves a 2:1 in English from Cambridge? You would rank the two degrees the same in terms of academic rigour?

Of course the choice of university matters. Courses vary wildly between different institutions and it's entirely possible that work which may be good enough for a 2:1 at Bolton wouldn't even get graded at Cambridge. Different universities have different requirements and different standards. Cambridge has some of the highest standards in the world, which is why it's one of the best universities in the world. Bolton doesn't have as high standards, and consequently it isn't one of the best universities in the world. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

I was talking from our experiences, we have all been offered work in our chose routes (not saught, been approached). We are all incredibly proud of our achivements and the red brick brigade won't persuade us otherwise.

freebie_junkie

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

In the light of the poor to non existent advice your daughter has had from the school before, could I suggest that she seeks advice from someone who knows what they're talking about before she jumps into the middle of another disaster! Although the Connexions Service has moved away from the role of pure careers advice, she can make an appointment to discuss her situation with one of their advisors. Make sure that she explains that it's specific careers advice that she wants, rather than speaking to a generic Personal Adviser. There are still staff employed by Connexions who have years of experience of this sort of situation and can offer her the expertise she so urgently needs.

FBJ, of course I wasn't suggesting that people who suffer from dyslexia aren't bright! However I do disagree with you regarding the choice of university being unimportant. Particularly for a subject like English, the standards expected in an institution where the majority of students have A grades is going to be far different from one in which students have far lower grades. There are excellent teachers in a variety of institutions but university education is about so much more than the quality of the teaching. Above all, if you plan to enter a competitive area when you leave you have to accept that employers will look on applications from different institutions differently; I wonder how many people on the BBC graduate training programme come from somewhere like Bolton?

(Mature students often have different criteria, convenience of location being the most important of them so that your friends "sat" in the canteen aren't necessarily typical!)

I'm not sure if you are aware of it, but we all read your posts out loud in a very sarcastic tone, you do come across as taking the mickey, you really do. Your previous post seemed to suggest that 'bright' and 'dyslexic' can't go together and that if a dyslexic student finds something, anything that they are able to do, well good on them! I assume that the inverted commas in this post are insulting my use of grammar in a non-formal, speech-like context? Oh dear!

At the end of the day, none of you will make us feel embarrassed of our achivements. Think about it from the other point of view, not every gold and diamond-encrusted Oxbridge graduate (or drop out) goes on to great and wonderful things.

Anyone who looks down their nose at you because of the Uni you went to, when you worked hard and got a decent degree isn't worth either knowing or working with.

Oldernotwiser

freebie_junkie wrote: »

I'm not sure if you are aware of it, but we all read your posts out loud in a very sarcastic tone, you do come across as taking the mickey, you really do. Your previous post seemed to suggest that 'bright' and 'dyslexic' can't go together and that if a dyslexic student finds something, anything that they are able to do, well good on them! I assume that the inverted commas in this post are insulting my use of grammar in a non-formal, speech-like context? Oh dear!

At the end of the day, none of you will make us feel embarrassed of our achivements. Think about it from the other point of view, not every gold and diamond-encrusted Oxbridge graduate (or drop out) goes on to great and wonderful things.

Anyone who looks down their nose at you because of the Uni you went to, when you worked hard and got a decent degree isn't worth either knowing or working with.

Apart from my crack about your poor grammar (below the belt, perhaps, but relevant considering the way you're extolling the quality of your education!) I gave you a polite and measured reply. I'm surprised that you don't realise that you can read anything in a sarcastic tone and make it sound daft! I've studied at three ex polytechnics (including Manchester) and one plate glass university over a period of several decades as well as advising mature students for a number of years so I do think I have some knowledge of what I'm talking about.

If I lived and worked in the Bolton area I would expect many of my clients to study there and would value their achievements. I would understand that for many older students even the short journey into Manchester could mean the difference between success and failure and I would expect the institution to cater well to their needs. If, on the other hand, I was still working with young people I would not recommend highly academic students with competitive career aims to study there as I know that a degree from Bolton would not open the doors that a degree from a more prestigious institution would. I would be failing in my responsibility as an adviser if I were not to point this out to them.

It's comments like yours about " gold and diamond encrusted Oxbridge graduates" that puts off many young people from lower income homes from aiming higher and achieving their full potential. Reverse snobbery can be just as destructive as the traditional kind and I feel that your posts show both a lack of objectivity and just the slightest hint of inferiority complex. I wish you well in your future career - really.

freebie_junkie

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Apart from my crack about your poor grammar (below the belt, perhaps, but relevant considering the way you're extolling the quality of your education!) I gave you a polite and measured reply. I'm surprised that you don't realise that you can read anything in a sarcastic tone and make it sound daft! I've studied at three ex polytechnics (including Manchester) and one plate glass university over a period of several decades as well as advising mature students for a number of years so I do think I have some knowledge of what I'm talking about.

If I lived and worked in the Bolton area I would expect many of my clients to study there and would value their achievements. I would understand that for many older students even the short journey into Manchester could mean the difference between success and failure and I would expect the institution to cater well to their needs. If, on the other hand, I was still working with young people I would not recommend highly academic students with competitive career aims to study there as I know that a degree from Bolton would not open the doors that a degree from a more prestigious institution would. I would be failing in my responsibility as an adviser if I were not to point this out to them.

It's comments like yours about " gold and diamond encrusted Oxbridge graduates" that puts off many young people from lower income homes from aiming higher and achieving their full potential. Reverse snobbery can be just as destructive as the traditional kind and I feel that your posts show both a lack of objectivity and just the slightest hint of inferiority complex. I wish you well in your future career - really.

Inferiority complex? What have I set out to achieve that I haven't? You lot on here really do make me chuckle (well, all of us actually, the party here has grown, we're all watching this thead with great interest now!) As you will obviously know, local dialects contain grammar variations that are perfectly acceptable in speech and as discussion boards such as these lie on the cusp of speech (the debate is raging about whether they are a form of speech or a form of writing as they appear to be both), this usage of the verb to sit is also acceptable in this situation in our opinion.

To some extent I do accept your 'reverse snobbey' comment but if kids are told that they can only be classed as 'bright' or get a job if they go to a red brick uni, this will make the other 99% of kids feel inferior and stupid (talk about giving a person an inferiority complex!) I'm old enough not to buy into this, but a lot of 17-year-olds won't know any better. Some of your snobbery is potentially incredibly damaging.

As for your comment on 'we're old so we'll just go to any old tin pot Uni in walkign distance', you're very, very wrong on this point too. In my class, three people have moved up from the South and are living in student accomodation so that they can do this course, two have also moved from Liverpool and are doign the same. I live the closest at a 30 minute drive away, most live in or on the other side of Manchester, so Manchester is closer to them actually! Perhaps you could have checked before deciding that we only come here becuase we can't read a bus timetable or drive for more than 10 minutes without getting giddy or whatever.

poet123

Bolton University is Britain's third worst, says Sunday Times
By [EMAIL="deborah.linton@theboltonnews.co.uk"]Deborah Linton[/EMAIL]

Comment | Read Comments (23)

THE University of Bolton has been ranked worst in the North-west - and one of the worst in the country - by a "definitive" newspaper guide.
The town's university features bottom of a list of 12 regional institutions, to be published in the Sunday Times University Guide 2007 this weekend.
It ranks 121 out of 123 universities nationwide in what the newspaper claims to be "the definitive guide for prospective students".
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The University of Bolton - which was awarded university status in 2004 - has fared badly against the nearby Universities of Manchester, Salford, Liverpool and Edge Hill, among others.
University of Bolton Deputy Vice Chancellor, Dr Peter Marsh, said: "We take all newspaper rankings with a pinch of salt and advise all students and their parents to do the same.
"The Times newspaper's 2008 Good University Guide ranks us joint-first in the region for student satisfaction, eighth in the region overall and 93rd across the UK.
"Clearly there is great confusion for everyone. We advise potential students and their families to attend open days and see universities for themselves. That is the way to make a valid judgement."
The University of Lancaster topped the Sunday Times regional table with a national ranking of 18, compared to Bolton's 121. The Universities of Oxford and Cambridge topped the national table, gaining the maximum overall score of 1000. Bolton gained 316 points overall but achieved a 74.4 per cent score in the guide's student satisfaction ratings - almost one per cent higher than the national average.
It last year featured at 115 out of 119 universities included in the 2006 guide.
Figures released by the Higher Education Statistics Agency earlier this year showed that more students quit courses at the University of Bolton than any other university in England and Wales.The 31.7 per cent drop-out rate falls well below the 22.2 per cent benchmark rate set by the agency, which released annual statistics in June


Regardless of how you (and obviously other students and the staff!)perceive it from the inside,outsiders, including employers base their judgements on this kind of statistical info. Which however you look at it, is dire.

Voyager2002

freebie_junkie wrote: »

Inferiority complex? What have I set out to achieve that I haven't? You lot on here really do make me chuckle (well, all of us actually, the party here has grown, we're all watching this thead with great interest now!) As you will obviously know, local dialects contain grammar variations that are perfectly acceptable in speech and as discussion boards such as these lie on the cusp of speech (the debate is raging about whether they are a form of speech or a form of writing as they appear to be both), this usage of the verb to sit is also acceptable in this situation in our opinion.

To some extent I do accept your 'reverse snobbey' comment but if kids are told that they can only be classed as 'bright' or get a job if they go to a red brick uni, this will make the other 99% of kids feel inferior and stupid (talk about giving a person an inferiority complex!) I'm old enough not to buy into this, but a lot of 17-year-olds won't know any better. Some of your snobbery is potentially incredibly damaging.

As for your comment on 'we're old so we'll just go to any old tin pot Uni in walkign distance', you're very, very wrong on this point too. In my class, three people have moved up from the South and are living in student accomodation so that they can do this course, two have also moved from Liverpool and are doign the same. I live the closest at a 30 minute drive away, most live in or on the other side of Manchester, so Manchester is closer to them actually! Perhaps you could have checked before deciding that we only come here becuase we can't read a bus timetable or drive for more than 10 minutes without getting giddy or whatever.

I'm afraid I agree with Oldernotwiser in this discussion. It is true, of course, that all universities produce some successful people, and I am delighted that this is true in your case. However, some universities really do give a good education to a higher proportion of their students than is the case with other universities. I have worked at three different universities, and they all gave very different experiences to their students.

As for the point about snobbery, what matters is the perception held by potential employers. Even if Bolton provided an education that was in every respect equal to that available at Cambridge, it is a fact that most employers would be far more interested in an application from a Cambridge graduate. Such employers might perhaps be displaying irrational snobbishness, but their attititude is a fact that should be brought to the attention of anyone choosing a university course.

bestpud

There is definitely still a hierarchy of universities.

It's obvious why really. Degrees are more common now and as such, employers are looking for any way to quickly reduce the pile of graduate appplications they recieve.

The older unis have tradition and long-held reputations on their side and it will take years (if it ever happens) to convince the bulk of employers that newer unis can produce able (and maybe better in some cases) employees.

Eventually, I hope, students will be judged by their achievements per se, including non-curricular activities, and the certificate (and insititution on it) will be of less importance. I say I hope because imo, for many jobs, academic briliance does not guarantee a person will be a good employee - there is just so much more to consider! But right now, that is a long way off, and the flood of new graduates every year is not helping.

There will always be some who do well wherever they go though, and I personally would be reluctant to choose a uni purely on it's status. It's a factor to be considered but one of many imo.

freebie_junkie

By the way Janeyjaz- me and my oh both really like your daughter's website, she's very talented.