British Gas recommends a powerflush...

LCFC_Foxile

Hi fellow Moneysavers,

Just wanted to get a 2nd opinion on our current situation.

1. Our radiators were not heating properly without the water also being on; so having a BG Homecare 200 policy, the engineer attached a "3-port" (as it says on the paperwork which tells you what he has done) to our hot water tank a couple of days ago.

2. The heating is now working fine on its own, although a couple of the radiators are still erratic at best (being cold pretty much all over most of the time). However, it looks as if the water is now being problematic. This morning, we had the water on for 3 hours for 2 people to have showers - the shower water was slightly warmer than lukewarm.

We've been told by more than a few people that we shouldn't need the water on for that long for 2 people to have sufficient hot water for quick showers, or even if one of us wanted a bath.

The BG engineer had recommended that we have the immersion switched on, for hot water instead, if the normal way wasn't doing the business.

However, my wife switched it on 1.5 hours yesterday in order for our son to have a bath when he got home from school, only to find that the water temperature was tepid.

3. In addition to this, we get clanking noises from our pipes every so often.

We have a conventional boiler, & the BG Homecare engineer recommended a powerflush, & quoted £695. As long as we have a Homecare policy, then we are covered by a 'lifetime guarantee' (I've actually checked, & the guarantee is actually for 15 years).

My queries are :

1. Will a powerflush solve the problem?

2. If so, bearing in mind the guarantee, are we best to go to BG, or look for someone cheaper, on the basis that a non-BG guarantee is likely to be no longer than 1-2 years? I envisage keeping a Homecare policy for the foreseeable future, for peace of mind.

3. The boiler itself appears to have no problems. However, is it worth changing to a combi-boiler, not only because a powerflush is incorporated into the work for that anyway, but also in terms of energy/water efficiency & lowering our bills in the long-run?

All thoughts welcome!

Oscar

I did not have the same problem as yourself but BG suggested a power flush a few years ago for us. We knew from speaking with others that it was BG ansewer to a lot of problems. We got an independant corgi registered plumber who said what we really needed was a new pump which was covered by BG. Got BG out again and the engineer on this occasion agreed. After the new pump was fitted we got the plumber to put in a chemical flush at a fraction of the price and hey presto our system has run fine since.
Unfortunately its getting a plumber you can trust to look at your system that is the problem.

alanobrien

In my experience they recommend power flushing a lot because they make a hell of a lot of money out of it. It is something you can do yourself if you have some basic DIY skills. You can hire the equipment from HSS and the like see here;
http://www.hss.com/g/51610/Central-Heating-Flusher.html
Note the PDF document at the bottom of the page which provides instruction on how to use the machine. You would obviously need to provide the chemicals as well.

When we replaced our boiler a few years back. I ran descaler through the system then removed all the rads and flushed them in the garden individually before the new boiler was fitted. Power flushing is just a more convenient and profitable means of achieving the same end - magnatite removal from the system. If i were doing it today i would also add a "fernox boiler buddy" or similar in line filter to the system.

LCFC_Foxile

Hi alanobrien,

Thanks for the tip about DIY-ing it, I had seen the suggestion elsewhere on the forums.

However, whilst I am capable of doing a fair bit of stuff around the house, I am a bit hesitant in tackling this by myself.

In an ideal world, I'd love for someone to take me thru' a step-by-step process of powerflushing whilst they were doing it!

Would welcome any other suggestions...

Keith585

Hi

A few thoughts in addition to those above.
The hot water system and the Heating system run though separate systems. They inter connect through the hot water cylinder and exchange heat there (usually).

If some radiators are hot and some cold there is a problem only with those radiators (sorry to state the obvious) Is there any heat in them? have they been turned off? have you bled the air from them? - easy to do if you have a little bleed key from B&Q

The clanking sounds like air in the system which seems consistent with the cold radiators. - If they are cold at the top there is air in them, if they are cold at the bottom and hot at the top they are full of sludge. ONLY if they are full of sludge do you need to consider flushing them.

If you are capable you can take off the individual radiators and flush them through with a hose- Might be wise to do this in the garden :rotfl:The radiators need to be turned off at both ends and can then be removed.

I hope this helps with some of your problems,

For the rest of the problems which seem to keep changing I suggest you find a small block off wood and gently tap every joint and pump/ fitting you can find - it is surprising what a small bit of debris can stop from working when it end up in the wrong place- this tip has saved me hours of work in the past.

LCFC_Foxile

Hi Keith585 (& other fellow Moneysavers),

Thanks for your suggestions.

We actually tried something different in our efforts to get hot water this morning...!

We set the timers for BOTH the heating & water to come on at the same time. I felt extremely guilty doing this, on the basis that the heating was on for a couple of hours before we were actually up & about. Nevertheless, I wanted to try this variation to see what would happen.

As it turned out, the water was heated properly for us to have normal showers. So, the state of play is :

1. Heating on - works by itself, although a couple of radiators could still be problematic, so may need bleeding in the first instance.

2. Water on, but not at the same time as the heating - water does not heat sufficiently.

3. Heating & water on at the same time - everything appears to work fine, although this is obviously the least efficient, cost & energy-wise.

Would fellow Moneysavers recommend that what I've mentioned in point 1 should be the first course of action?

And what would/could be the problems behind point 2 taking place?

Cheers....

espresso

Mistryman wrote: »

Hi Keith585 (& other fellow Moneysavers),

Thanks for your suggestions.

We actually tried something different in our efforts to get hot water this morning...!

We set the timers for BOTH the heating & water to come on at the same time. I felt extremely guilty doing this, on the basis that the heating was on for a couple of hours before we were actually up & about. Nevertheless, I wanted to try this variation to see what would happen.

As it turned out, the water was heated properly for us to have normal showers. So, the state of play is :

1. Heating on - works by itself, although a couple of radiators could still be problematic, so may need bleeding in the first instance.

2. Water on, but not at the same time as the heating - water does not heat sufficiently.

3. Heating & water on at the same time - everything appears to work fine, although this is obviously the least efficient, cost & energy-wise.

Would fellow Moneysavers recommend that what I've mentioned in point 1 should be the first course of action?

And what would/could be the problems behind point 2 taking place?

Cheers....

It sounds like you still have a problem with the three port valve, which you have been told has been replaced. It may have been wired incorrectly. When heating is required the motor actuates the valve. When heating and hot water are required the motor operates the valve to the mid position. When hot water only is required, the spring return should cause the valve to return to the water only position.

The BG engineer had recommended that we have the immersion switched on, for hot water instead, if the normal way wasn't doing the business.

This tells us that this BG engineer is a useless muppet! Forget BG service because as you have found, they are over priced and incompetant!

LCFC_Foxile

Hi espresso,

I'm replying from work, so this is from memory of what I recall the 3-port valve looks like.

I recall there being 3 settings visible; one said 'M', the second was labelled 'W' & I can't remember what the third one was (could be 'H'?).

From what you are saying, the settings should change automatically according to whether we have the water on, the heating on, or both - correct?

And if my assumptions are correct, then the settings should change as follows?

Water only - 'W'
Heating only - 'H'
Both - 'M'

Cheers...

espresso

Mistryman wrote: »

Hi espresso,

I'm replying from work, so this is from memory of what I recall the 3-port valve looks like.

I recall there being 3 settings visible; one said 'M', the second was labelled 'W' & I can't remember what the third one was (could be 'H'?).

From what you are saying, the settings should change automatically according to whether we have the water on, the heating on, or both - correct?

And if my assumptions are correct, then the settings should change as follows?

Water only - 'W'
Heating only - 'H'
Both - 'M'

Cheers...

There are several manufacturers of these three port valves but that sounds about right, sometimes the positions are refered to as A, B and A+B (mid position). If your valve was replaced by the BG engineer, it should have been tested for correct operation. Remember that the tank stat and room stat will affect the position of the valve e.g. when the timeswitch is on and heat is required by either hot water or heating.

Cardew

Leaving aside the possible faults with the Y plan, I am puzzled why the water was tepid when the immersion heater was switched on for 1.5 hours.(obviously the immersion heater should not need to be on)

Assuming the heater is working the water in the tank would be fully up to temperature.

frankie

Could be a separate problem with the immersion heater??

Maybe a check of immersion stat is worth a look too?