New RCD

MRF

Hi there;

I've bought a purpose built flat in London (1967) and before I exchanged I had a spark look round to give me an idea of what needs spending to bring it up to scratch.

There is no earth wire, just a L & N and earthing is through the conduits. I had it all tested and was told there was no leakage so it wasnt necessary to have a rewire.

Had another spark round today, and he told me that it needs re wiring to bring it up to current regs.

He also told me that he won't put new sockets in the kitchen unless I have an RCD fitted as it won't meet part P regs otherwise.

Is this correct - what should I do? The RCD isn't to bad, but a rewire woudl really cost.

I'm planning to rent the flat out later this year is it makes any difference

Any advice would be appreciated

inspect

Your electricians correct. The electrician only has to upgrade the electrics on the circuits that he is working on but you do have a duty of care to your tenants to provide them with a safe environment. I am afraid you’re looking at a rewire.

New updated regulations came out earlier this year BS7671 – the 17th Edition. They will come into force in July. The regulations will require on RCD on every circuit, there are exceptions but not many.

If you’re considering a rewire make sure that the electrician installs to the 17th. You wouldn’t want to be told the installation is out of date in a couple of month’s time.;)

MRF

Thanks for the reply

I know (from looking at flats up for rent in my block) that other premises are rented out with the same earth arrangement as mine.

Are you saying its a legal requirement to have a re-wire before I rent it ouy or just best practice?

I'm still a little confused as to what I'm legally required to do and what I am advised is a good idea?

inspect

I have to admit it’s not as clear cut as it is with gas. Every landlord should know that they are legally bound to have gas appliances inspected annually. It’s not the case with electrics.

With electrics you have a duty of care to ensure that the electrical installation and any electrical appliances are safe for your tenant to use. How do you do this? By employing an electrician to carry out an inspection on the installation and PAT testing of appliances.

There are two types of electrical inspection, a visual and a periodic. The visual is what it says, a visual assessment of the installation with possibly one or two plug-in tests. The electrician is using his knowledge and experience to identify any defects and or departures from current regulations. You cannot guarantee an installation is safe to use from a visual inspection as most of the system is hidden under floor boards or in the walls. A periodic inspection contains a visual inspection but is also involves rigorous testing of each circuit. The test results will indicate if the installation is safe for use. Obviously a periodic is more costly and landlords being landlords will opt for a visual inspection each time. :rotfl:

Once you have information that your electrics are unsafe and need upgrading it is your duty to carry out the work as soon as reasonably practicable. If an incident was to occur and you have failed in your responsibilities as a landlord you could find yourself in serious trouble.

Once an installation is safe and you have certificates to prove it, there is no need to have you electrics inspected annually. What I would recommend is that you inspect the installation each time a tenant vacates the property. Document your inspection and keep it in your records. This way you will be able to show that you have carried out your duties as required by law.

MRF

Thanks very much for the reply.

The spark that came round and did a couple of tests on my circuits and sent me a report. There were a few obvious things that I'm getting sorted such as the immersion heater being on the main ring and a couple of others such as cross bonding.

He made the following comment in relation to the earth arrangements.

"Earth arrangements via metal conduits throughout code 4"
Code 4 is defined as "does not comply with BS7671"

The Test results also stated the ohms on the switch end in each room.

He advised me on this basis I didnt need to re-wire although the guy today based on visual inspection said I did.
Based on this its difficult to see who to listen to or what do do! :eek:

inspect

Just re-read your post. My first impression was that you bought the flat in 1967 and that was when it was last inspected. I read it now as the flat was built in 1967 and you have recently purchased it?:think:

Metal conduit can be used as an earth but you must prove continuity along with other tests. You also have to make sure each accessory is earthed to the metallic conduit.

Currently an RCD is only required where sockets might be expected to supply equipment outside. As I mentioned this changes with the 17th Edition.

I can see why you are confused, as you are getting conflicting advice. Ok, this is what I would do.

Install a new 17th edition consumer unit. This will come with at least two 30mA RCD’s.
Make sure that the Main earth conductor is 16mm².
Check that the main bonding to water and gas are 10mm² and within 600mm of the isolation valves.
Run a separate cpc (earth) for each circuit through the conduit.
Inspect & test each circuit and replace if necessary.

It’s difficult to give proper advice without seeing the installation but the above should go along way to improving the installation and be cheaper than a full rewire.

MRF

Thanks very much, I will go and get that quoted for. I imagine they will say that to run a new earth I may as well have a full rewire as it may not fit in the conduits, but will give it a go!