MONEY MORAL DILEMMA. Should Vinnie chase the robbers?

jet77

NO - why should he risk himself for minimum wage ... the shops insurance will pay out. Most robbers are armed at least with a knife ... the way they see it is that they aren't risking X amount of years in jail for a do-gooder.

golddustmedia

He's employed as a "Sales Assistant" not a security guard. If the store wants him to be security he should be employed, and paid, on that basis.

So I'd say NO, he shouldn't tackle the robber. That's why the shop has insurance and the wholesale value of some shirts isn't worth any injury or abuse he may receive.

themadbird

Nope he shouldn't it's not in his job description - and although he works for the company, he's not directly affected by the loss, so nope, let the Supervisor run after them.

whosforachat

Could Vinnie one day say to his boss "I'm a bot short of money today, so I'd like you to pay me a security guard's salary in addition to mine"?

If he couldn't then why should his boss suddenly be able to say "I'd like you to be a security guard today"?

If you want a security guard, you should pay the wages for a security guard.

As for criticising criminals, we should not be so judgemental: we do not know what has driven them to crime; our society is not fair, and it could be a very good reason.

Remember, Emily Pankhurst and Nelson Mandela were criminals, having broken the law, and so is the girl who read out the names of the Iraq-war-dead at the cenotaph last year.

mbourne2008

How interesting to see the variety in responses. I have been in more than one situation that involved potentially life-threatening circumstances on account of unprovoked aggression, and I promise it is not something to enter into lightly. This was years ago now, and to recall the encounters still evokes very strong emotions.
What is going through Vinnie's mind at the point the boss tells him to stop the thief? Some suggestions: "Is he (thief) on drugs? Is he armed? If he tries to kill me, will I be able to react in time? Will my family be taken care of? If I overpower him, will I be able to do it in a controlled way - what if I seriously injure or kill him? Does he have family, children? Do they deserve to get a phone call asking them to come and identify a body?" And the decision to act or not must be taken instantly. Could you?
Somebody quoted earlier on something about evil triumphing due to the inaction of good men; well, where's the evil here? On the surface, we all jump to the conclusion about the thief being the evil, and the good man is Vinnie, standing by doing nothing. Well, what about the boss? Perhaps he was given a budget to implement proper security, but has spent the money elsewhere. Maybe he's now panicking about the consequences and is attempting to transfer his responsibility to Vinnie. Is that OK? You might argue in that case that the evil is the boss. In standing up to his boss and saying no, Vinnie (the good man) is not doing nothing, he is fighting for what he believes in. I can't imagine that the store will not be insured against such losses, as long as adequate security measures are in place.
I'll finish with a quote too: "Check rather than hurt; hurt rather than maim; maim rather than kill. All life is precious, and we each have only one."

Love & peace.

JayD

Well, I think it would be instinctive to attempt to stop the thief - and with his arms full of clothing, he isn't in a position to do much damage to Vinnie.

If I were Vinnie I would be grabbing at those shirts and I suspect that in the ensuing tug of war, Vinnie might win a couple, some would get torn, some might get dropped and the thief would make off with the rest. No great shakes.

Although I agree there is a possibility that the thief might drop the shirts to free his arms to take Vinnie on, I don't see this as a likely outcome. Thieves like to be off and away pretty fast.

Tackling him has nothing to do with Vinnie's pay or terms of employment - I think it is just a natural reaction to repossess stuff that is being stolen.

Maybe I am being naive but in this instance, I don't really see Vinnie as being in much danger at all.

harryhound

jeffk wrote: »

In this messed up world if he tackles and hurts the shoplifter he has every chance of getting arrested, prosecuted and then sued. :rolleyes:

.

I think this says it all, when coupled with the threat of being stabbed with an HIV syringe. (I know someone who was mugged with one of those).

In these days of CCTV, overcrowded universities of crime, ineffective courts and general me, me, me attitudes, are we surprised that idiots are sufficiently arrogant, stupid or desperate to try a raid in broad day light ?

I tackled a housebreaker in a similar situation. I think it is fairly safe if they are running and you "rugby" tackle them.
In my case the thief tried to threaten me with "getting arrested, prosecuted and then sued" and continued to pursue that line of attack, demanding his "rights" down at the cop shop.

Fortunately the nasty little druggie scumbag had been on the police wanted list for some time. I was able to grin at the old bill and say I had used no more than necessary force to restrain his attempt to resist arrest and put him into the recovery position for safe detention, while waiting the arrival of the police.

I think I would bring back the ducking stool and put subsidised drugs back on prescription.

Harry.

PS
If I was the boss, I would make sure that "have a go Vinnie", got suitable recognition amongst his peers and give him a bonus.

willywillwill

Hi all

I thought this was an interesting one . People seem to be either (a) it’s all about money, Vinnie doesn’t get paid enough and/or doesn’t get paid to act as security or (b) have a go, it’s not about money but about principle. I’m definitely in the second category, if you don’t oppose crime then it will only get worse. That said, if the robber is an axe wielding psychopath, I’d probably run a bit slower than normal!

TAKATAK

No chance. Ive worked in retail for 10 years, and seen several co-workers injured tackling shoplifters. I myself was assaulted, by a young girl as it happens, as I left work - Because we had caught her shoplifting earlier in the day. I probably caught about 50 shoplifters in the last 5 years. No thanks from anyone, no pay rise, I might as well have just ignored them all. Oh yes, and another one we banned found out where I lived and made a habit of damaging my car everytime he and he his 'posse' passed my house. So far thats cost me around £500 in repairs, none of which I can claim on my insurance for, since usually its below my £50 excess, and even if it was just over- I know that If I claim my premiums will just reflect that the following year...
Thats not even taking into account all the stories Ive seen over the years about security guards and staff in retail being stabbed, shot, injected with dirty needles etc.
I agree that we all have a social responsibilty to prevent crime when possible. However not in this instance. I dont even agree with people phoning 999 for shoplifters, while people are dealing with calls like that someone could be dying somewhere else, hardly an emergency on the same scale.

trejoy

No, definitely not. Money has nothing to do with it, Vinnie`s health and safety has to come first. The manager is out of order and could be prosecuted for telling a member of staff to `pin him down`, Absolutely ridiculous. I used to chase and give hell to shoplifters myself.If my regional manager had seen me, I would have had a formal warning as it was against employee health and safety guidelines. It was fun though!!
:T:rotfl::T