Tax rebate without National Insurance number?

Rose_Stewart

I worked in London last year using a New Zealand working holiday visa. As a nanny, my employers paid my tax for me (supposedly) and I never bothered to get a National Insurance number as I had heard it could be a real hassle trying to get an interview, in fact my sister did not manage to get an interview the whole 2 years she was working in London. I know I should have got one, and it was just laziness on my part, but as I already had the job and they were paying my tax, it was easy to forget it. I worked in the job for 10 months (of the 12 months allowed, plus you are allowed to stay for another 12 months but not working) and after leaving, asked my boss about getting a tax return but have had only vague replies form him since. Does anyone know whether he would have even been able to pay tax for me without an NI number or is it possible he was never paying tax for me at all? If not, it is possible there is no record of me having ever worked in the UK and in theory I could return and work another 12 months. Can anyone help me out with this?
Also, what kind of trouble could I get into if I contacted the IR myself and admitted I never got a NI number but want to find out about getting a tax refund?

gordonstights

Hi,

First of all what is deducted from your wages as an employee is broken down into two different things. PAYE (Pay as you earn) is known as income tax. National insurance is a separate deduction. An employer should contact the Inland Revenue when they first started paying an employee a wage to make sure they are paying the correct net wage. The Inland Revenue will inform an employer of a tax code, which will basically allow them to make the correct deductions for the PAYE. The National Insurance contributions will also be worked out from the amount you earn but is based on whether you are a director of a company or not (I am simplifying this explanation as I don't think you need to know all the ins & outs).

I am slightly confused as to your situation I must admit. If your employer said they were paying your tax to the Inland Revenue, they should have taken your National Insurance number as part of this process. If you didn't have one, then you should have had to apply for one. As far as I am aware, you cannot legally work without a National Insurance number.

If this is the case, what your employer is doing is wrong. They should have informed the Inland Revenue that they are in fact, your employer. If they get caught out for trying to defraud the Inland Revenue, then they will be sure to try and take you down with them. I would strongly recommend that you apply for a National Insurance number and do things legitimately and only work for people that give you proper payslips showing your PAYE & NI deductions along with your NI number. At least then, you can prove that you have worked here legitimately (as far as you were aware)

Rose_Stewart

Sounds as though we were both in the wrong then, I never got a NI number, but my employer should have made it clear to me that I needed one in order to work; if I was never making NI contributions, am I right to suspect I was also never paying tax? This would explain not receiving pay slips, which I admit did not bother me at the time as it seems to be common practice in the nannying world. As far as I knew at the time I was working legally. Thanks for your help.

fengirl_2

First of all, you don't need an NI number in order to work in the UK. It is an employers responsibility to deduct NIC and pay it over to HMRC - without an NI number it would just be credited to the record held under your name and date of birth until it could be linked with a number.
In order to claim a refund of the tax deducted from your pay, you need to ask your ex employer for a form P45 (certificate of pay and tax deducted on leaving employment). Then you download form P85 (leaving UK) and P86 (coming to UK) from www.hmrc.gov.uk, fill them in and send them to the tax office with the P45.
It sounds to me as if your employer did not pay over your tax and NIC if he is being vague about it, but I would persue the matter anyway. If he hasn't paid these deductions, its his responsibility, not yours.

gordonstights

fengirl wrote: »

First of all, you don't need an NI number in order to work in the UK.

Not what HMRC say:

"When you come to work in the UK you have to register for a National Insurance number and immediately start paying National Insurance contributions in the UK on the same basis as other people who normally live and work here."

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/nic/work/ni-uk.htm

fengirl wrote: »

without an NI number it would just be credited to the record held under your name and date of birth until it could be linked with a number.

Possibly true for short period, but I still think the employee should apply for one immediately to ensure an employer has all the correct information when paying contributions.

Very informative post though fengirl. I'm glad someone could provide useful information to the OP

fengirl_2

You dont need an NI number to start work - as HMRC says, you need to apply for one asap, but that doesnt prevent your employer from making the deductions. A UK resident could just as easily lose their NI number, but they wouldnt be prevented from working until they had traced their number.

Rose_Stewart

I am no longer in the UK, but would like to be able to reclaim tax still if I can. I am rather confused - even though I didn't have a NI number, would the contributions in theory still have been coming out of my pay? I understand you are given a tmeporary NI number and the last thing I heard from my old employer was that he had tried sending in tax rebate forms but 'they kept saying the NI number was invalid'. Would it be possible to apply for an NI now and would I get in any trouble? As in owing a lot of money or being fined?

fengirl_2

As I have said above, I suspect your employer did not pay your tax or NIC which is why they are being unhelpful. Stuff about tax rebate forms is rubbish as the employer does not claim a refund - thats what the employee does. The fact that you did not have an NI number is a red herring. Any contributions would have been credited to you using your date of birth as a double check that it was you and not someone of the same name.
You should therefore do as I advised in my first post.
If they dont come up with a P45, then I would guess they didnt pay anything over. You then have 2 options:
1. forget it.
2. report them to HMRC who will (hopefully) chase them for the tax and NIC, which you can then reclaim.
You are not in trouble - but your employer potentially is.