HELP - Dismissed for eBay use!

Felix_the_Foccer

Not sure if anyone can offer any advice (I've thought long and hard on this already_ ... and this is a long post so please bear with me ... :rolleyes:

Last July, totally out of the blue, I was dismissed from my job as an analyst at a small risk management consultancy.

I upset the boss with a ever so slightly sarcastic comment on a meeting agenda and the next thing, I was hauled in and summarily dismissed for Gross Misconduct for five 'offences' ... all of which they'd previoulsy encouraged and hadn't given me any verbal or written warnings for....

Now, one of them was 'having eBay items delivered to the office' .... I've (at long last!) got my Employment Tribunal in a couple of weeks .. and my old work lot are demanding to see my full ebay account details, (I take it they mean what I've bought and sold) ... from 1st January 06 through to 31st July 07....

Now, I've used eBay, with the one account since May 2003, I have positive feedback rating of 180 .. (with 75 as a Seller, and 118 as a buyer).

Now, from my reckoning, I've had 28 feedback as a Seller (since Jan 06 - 31st July 07). And 36 (as a buyer for the same period Jan 06 - 31st July 07)...

I have bought from eBay and occasionally had items 'delivered to the office' (who doesn't?!) but when you get the tin tack and the things you've been buying is like printer ink (6 x cheaper than pc world) ... (books for the other Directors who 'don't know how eBay works') ... oh, and stuff like USB hubs and routers for the office etc .. it's a bit rich don't ya think. ..?

I did have a brand new exhaust delivered there from eBay (5 x cheaper than Citroen) but seeing as I was there from 8am - 6pm most days, and there was no way the postie would fit it through my letterbox, and I needed my car to get to work, I didn't think there was anything massively wrong in that.

Now, I suspect my old work lot are:

a) realising they've fooked up a bit and it looks a bit silly ...
b) trying to bully/scare me by demanding they see full proof of ALL my eBay transactions ... (with the inference of tax evasion!) and are demanding FULL PROOF of this .. etc ...

Now, seeing as virtually 99% of the stuff I've bought and sold is personal, and they're talking bo***cks ... I don;t see why I should have to hand them full records of all my ebay transactions .... (I don't even know if I can go back as far as 1st Jan 06!).

Also, I don't think it's very relevant to the dismissal itself ..... which was basically down to annoying the boss in an email and he then lumped about 5 things together, constituting it as Gross Misconduct ...

Might I add, there was no internet policy forbiding eBay use (well, there was no internet policy at all) .. in fact I used eBay for work on a number of occasions .. and anytime I used it in the office apart from that, it would have been in my breaktime / lunchtime etc ...

Anyone got any thoughts on this? Anything Appreciated.. Thanks..

PS - They are also demanding to see all my Amazon and Play account details etc too .. (They can whistle for those too!)

FloFlo

What sort of company - does the buck stop with your boss or is there someone higher you can go to?

Felix_the_Foccer

Hi Flo,

It's a small risk management consultancy, there's 3 Directors and (including them), 6 shareholders .... (I own a small 5% share but they're trying to take that off me as they say I was 'Dismissed for Gross Misconduct' so I lose it.... (however when they waved the share transfer forms under my nose last Summer and said 'I just need to sign just here I told them I was taking legal advice etc and I wasn't signing anything ... ) ...

So yeah, three directors and maybe... erm ... 8 full time staff .. and some part time ... so yeah, the buck stops with him really, as I guess he'd the MD.

oh, and as the months have dragged on, they're claiming ... amongst other things they;re digging up at me, I set out to decieve Tesco and probably left the office to do it ... lol ... How ill informed they are ...

soolin

What was the exact reason you were sacked, you say gross misconduct but exactly what do they say that consists of. Regardless of the term used the 'complaint' still needs to be defined.

If this was anything to do with ebay and any other online trading then yes you will be required to provide your accounts for the tribunal as this works both for your defence and to answer the complaint. If you refuse to provide these accounts it may be seen as an admission of guilt and your claim will be dismissed.

If ebay/online trading or anything like that was not mentioned and you were sacked for another reason then they can't now demand these items. Once you are sacked for a reason they shouldn't be adding other things to the complaint afterwards, so if they sacked you say for rudeness (and I can't see that being gross misconduct) they are stuck with arguing that that was a valid reason alone.

Sorry I can't explain myself well enough here, but you mustn't think of this like a court where your character itself can be questioned or other incriminating evidence can be produced. This is a simple case of facts, why were you sacked and was it a valid reason under UK employment law. Even if it was a valid reason they woudl still need to prove that the correct procedure was adhered to.

Personally I would get representation and let them help you, talk to the tribunal before the hearing and ask about free representation if available or for details of other services if not.

soolin

Sorry I've just gone back and re read th eoriginal post (OP) and can see that you were specifically dismissed for having online goods delivered to your work address.

In that case the accounts will need to be provided but in turn your employer will have to prove this breaches some specific policy or rule in the office. That policy or rule would also need to be available for you to have seen, this normally takes the form of having a policy folder available within the work place. If there is no such rule they would then need to point out how you were in fact in breach of your emplyment and it will be up to the tribunal to decide whetehr this constitutes gross misconduct or not.

AS there are 5 given reasons you will need for them to prove each of them seperately and point to the relevant policy that you have breached. It is quite posisble that the tribunal accept some of the points but not others and that will determine how much, if any, compensation will be given. If all 5 points stick the GM dismissal will stand and your references are allowed to reflect this. If only 1 remains then you might be compensated for the rest in a small amount, but again the employer can state it references that you were sacked for gross misconduct. If all 5 are dismissed by the tribunal then there must be no hint of censure on your references at all and if you ever get an inaccurate reference from them you can take them to court.

mpython

I think Soolin's right about the company will have to show how having ebay things delivered to your company address breaches their policies, and, why its gross misconduct rather than misconduct, if indeed it is even that.

Where I work, gross misconduct is generally confined to really serious things like theft of company property -which could be time -, violence against a colleague or boss, or racial or sexual harrassment or bullying. Most other things like timekeeping, poor standard of work, start with a verbal warning & persisitent/ repeat problems are then written standards of warning.

What puzzles me, is how the company can claim your deliveries are against company policy but purchases for their directors from ebay aren't (I presume you have proof of these - were these also delivered to work?)

I think you might get a better response on the employment board, as the ebay issue is, in my view, secondary to whether they have published empoyment policies, consistency of treatement, etc,etc, which more experienced MSErs may be able to help you with. try here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=141

soolin

Felix, if you would prefer me to move this over to the board suggested by mypython please pm me and I will do so.

Badger_Lady

These are just my (amateur but been to tribunal before) thoughts:

1) If these "five things lumped together" were in fact in breach of company rules, do they not have a disciplinary/grievance procedure that they need to follow? You suggest that no one of these things amounted to gross misconduct alone (what were the other things?), so assuming they happened at different times, surely you should have been formally warned at the time and only dismissed when you knowingly continued to offend.

2) The employment tribunal will have no interest whatsoever in tax evasion.

3) With regards to private post (as that's all you've mentioned), did you seek permission beforehand? Not necessarily relevant, but whenever I've had to post something at work I always have a word with the relevant person to check it's OK - more as a courtesy than anything else.

4) If your tribunal's in a couple of weeks, it may be too late to share new evidence anyway - I believe you have to provide all documentation to one another at least 14 days beforehand if you intend to use it on the day. Your employer can't demand supporting evidence from you - they can either obtain it themselves or you can volunteer it.

Zazen999

Hi
I would imagine that they want your ebay records to show that you were buying/selling in work time; I agree with Badger that they need to provide the evidence to show their decision, not the other way around. I suspect they trawled your internet records through the company and are clutching at straws here.

If it helps your case though, I would have those records on you, but don't surrender them.

Did they detail the 5 counts of Gross Misconduct in a letter?

Can you look at the ACAS website to see if they followed the procedures suggested for discipline and grievance, as again it seems that they haven't followed procedures.

I am sure someone else will be along in a mo with more advice.

Hope it goes well.

mountainofdebt

Well all I can say is thank goodness my company doesn't class having private deliveries to the office as gross mssconduct as I think I practically had last christmas delivered to mine!

Seriously if it has taken this long to get to a tribunal will the ebay records show a) when the purchase/sale was made or b)what that item was for?

I've just had a look at my ebay record and anything over 90 days only shows the item id number and who sold/bought the item. I suspect the time quoted on the feedback is when it was posted and not when the transaction was finalised.

maninthestreet

Your record of Ebay transactions will not show whether your purchases were delivered to your work address or somewhere else. Your ex-employer appears to be trying to change one of the reasons for sacking from 'having ebay items delivered to your work address', to 'trading on ebay on company time/using company IT equipment'. I've just signed into my Ebay account, and there's no real way of extracting buying/selling details from the dates given - feedback only shows links to items where feedback has been left in the last 90 days.