Forced to use holiday entitlement?

Savvy_Sue

Agree with ohreally - we had a union rep in recently and he said that although they probably wouldn't accompany anyone to meetings in their first 6 months of membership, a large part of his work was advising new joiners with a problem!

Can you hand deliver a letter on Monday disagreeing with their letter and say you are taking advice?

annie-c

My works trades union has a formal policy that says you have to be a member for x weeks before getting representation but in reality they are often sympathetic to new joiners so do ask.

HR seem to be behaving in a very manipulative manner. Good to hear that they recognise their dealings with you to be on a par with a car crash though

Take notes of everything and trust nothing they say unless it is verified by your union. Try to keep relationships business like though and don't go in all guns blazing if you can help it. The bottom line with HR is that they are there first and foremost to protect the company, not you. So you need a union to give you that protection.

stefejb

I'm a rep for one of the largest unions and would never make anyone wait x weeks before representing them - I have had people sign forms 10 minutes before a disciplinary! even if yours does if you have a rep on site I'm sure that they would give you advice. HR do not generally have your best interests at heart but if your organisation is large enough you may also have a welfare section that could help you. Often even members have told me that they've been discouraged from getting representation by HR telling them that union involvement makes them look guilty/ causes delay/ makes things more antagonistic - in my experience it never makes things worse

KarmaKarma

Grrrr!
Just spent ages typing a long reply, hit send....and it asked me to sign in again!!!
Anyway...here's goes!

Thank you for all the advice. I really do appreciate it:T

I'm going to phone the manager in the morning (after trying to contact the citizens once more!) to note that I did not agree to use my annual leave. If they have a problem I will say I will come back to my full contractual hours....I don't think that will go down well though as it's them that wants me to do a phased return... Also...after seeing what they say in regards to me not agreeing, I may ask to see a copy of the notes from the meeting. Am I allowed to see them?

I'm so stressed by this whole return to work and this annual leave business is just adding to it!
My other 'biggie problem' is this:
I approached them, at a meeting, to say I would like to return but on a part time basis. They were, of course, very agreeable to this as it is what they would have suggested anyway. Hours were discussed (had to leave enough for another person to also work part time...which they will advertise) and my preference to morns or afternoons was asked.
Now, since I have been off things have changed at home with hubby's working hours & the kids & childcare etc...so I said mornings. I would have reduced my hours and switched to just mornings by now anyway if I had not been off. Family friendly, improving working lives etc...so should have been no problem. HR asked ..'well what would you do if you were working full time still' and mentioned after school clubs etc...I didn't think on my feet so didn't get it out that I would have reduced hours by now if things were normal..

Anyway, they have offered me afternoons. Stating that they need someone 'reliable' in the mornings when the service is busiest. Also said I would have 'limbered up more' by the afternoon...not their exact words but to that effect.. How do they know that?? I'm the exact opposite in fact!
Ocy health have said that it is likely I will be off again more than the next person due to my conditon and past history....If I'm off in the morning then they are a staff member down when busiest. (There is another member that is PT and is off most afternoons so if I'm off in the afternoon they would be two members down...may be a little quieter but not much!) so it doesn't make sense?
In the next breath they said that when the new person has settled in, maybe they would kinda 'job share' with me and swap some mornings for afternoons etc...Contradiction?? It was said before this though that my attendence would be monitored...

So the new guy gets to pick and choose but I'm left at their mercy and just have to take what I'm told??

I'm feeling paranoid!! Do they want me to jump without being pushed? It would certainly make things cleaner & easier for them in the long run?
I feel like I'm being punished for being ill
I feel so ignorant! Knowledge is power & all that! I just don't have the know how like the big guys do..

I have spoken to the one collegue I work closely with and he has said that the temp they have in has her feet firmly under the table and the sun shines out of her jacksy! Apparently she would 'love' a full time, permanent position! Now he's a tame guy...This is the first time I've known him dislike anyone.... but...I don't know this person so can't judge...
It all adds to this insecure feeling I have which seems to be growing all the time...

Sorry it's so long!
It does feel good to get things off my chest though...
I'll be back tomorrow with an update!

Thank you for your patience and for listening to my woes!

KarmaKarma

LittleVoice

KarmaKarma wrote: »

Grrrr!
1 Just spent ages typing a long reply, hit send....and it asked me to sign in again!!!
. . .

2 .. Also...after seeing what they say in regards to me not agreeing, I may ask to see a copy of the notes from the meeting. Am I allowed to see them?

1 General tip (which I don't always take myself!) - if you think you have a long post - try either (a) writing it in Word or a text file first and then you can copy and paste it in or (b) writing it in the Message box but copy it (select then Ctrl+C) before sending. Then if the message fails to get through to the site, you have all your text ready to paste in quickly.

2 You can certainly ask for a copy of the notes. Under data protection legislation you have this right. The notes should be a factual note of what was said, not their opinions which weren't shared with you at the time.

Best wishes

LV

KarmaKarma

I can't get hold of the citizens advice......According to the web site they are open now for telephone advice.
There are three in this area, two offering phone advice.
They all have the same telephone number though.
It just rings and rings then goes to a recorded voice and press 2 for debt, press 3 for etc etc...

Should I just go ahead and phone manager now?
I don't really have time to wait because I'm due back tomorrow...but I'd rather speak with her after having spoken with citizens advice.

I feel sick here...I get so nervy..Feel like I'm gonna have a cardiac, heart is going so fast!

KarmaKarma

annie-c

My guess would be that if your employer is requiring you to return to work on a phased basis then the days that you are not in work should be classified as sickness absence. The amount of pay you are entitled to will depend on whether there is anything left of sickness pay to which you are entitled according to your contract of employment; if not I woiuld have thought that you would be entitled to stautory sick pay. After that, I guess it would be up to you to make an active choice if you would rather take holiday pay than be on a lower rate of SSP. A generous employer might wish to pay you; at the very least I can';t see that they could force you.

I would phone HR, not your manager - it is an HR issue to resolve.

KarmaKarma

Hi,
Spoke with citizens.
They say I'm entitled to keep my holiday leave and to not have to use it during a phased return...Though it is all a very sticky area..

The letter I received is from the managers office so I think it would be better to phone the organ grinder...
Just plucking up the courage now!
Gosh...I feel like a little girl!

Citizens also advised me to try and negotiate with employee in regards to wanting to work mornings. Also to formally put my request in a letter to them. If I then have no sucess, they have given me employment specialists phone numbers to contact...
Could be a long episode this!

Right gotta phone...back later.
Thank you all

KarmaKarma

KarmaKarma

K...back...

A def, big, fat no in regards to working mornings...all the same reasons as before given. Told by all means to write to her but she was just advising me of what she would be writing straight back.

RE..Annual leave during phased return....thought that was agreed at meeting. I said no etc and mentioned what was actually agreed. She's gonna get HR girl to phone me as she wrote the letter and manager just signed it.
Said by using my annual leave I would be able to get my full pay during phased return...understood but....I'm no longer on sick leave, they want me to do phased return, should be paid full hours wages from today anyway. To confuse things more I was told at the meeting that this weeks pay would be at my old full time hours and would change the week after?

Haven't asked for copy of meeting yet. Will see what HR girl says first.

Got to go out now..
Thank you all!

KarmaKarma

Hi again!

Received phone call from another HR lady..very nice and diplomatic! Usual girl is 'off'....
Anyway..here's what she had to say...

Ocy health didn't suggest me coming back on phased return as my reduced working hours would be like phased anyway.
Manager took it upon herself to put me on phased return using my a/l..to 'kill two birds with one stone'...ease me back in and use up a/l that I wouldn't have time to take as we're near the end of the financial year....hmmm wasn't explained to me this way though, hence the 'confusion' as new HR lady said.
Given me choice of using annual leave and phasing myself back into work or seeing what leave I have left, requesting leave for when I want before end of F Yr....Seeing if it is agreed by office manager or not...
Will need to look in my drawer tomorrow for exact hours I have left. Put in request for the dates I want....see if yes or no...decide what to do...then ring HR lady to inform her....

KarmaKarma