Pentalty Notice

sarah1975uk

Have been off work sick for a while and not driven company car. Received a call today from work saying they have received a pentalty notice for me alledgedly throwing cigarette out of my car £105:eek: They said as company policy states all fines to be paid by employee will deduct the money from my wages. BUT! i have not had any copy of the notice to enable me to either verify when where or any photographic proof etc. and dont feel happy to pay something that i have no concrete facts about. And also employer surely cant deduct anyway. Ive had a speeding fine before where FPN went to my employer and then forwarded to me, for me to deal with...why should this be any different.

What do i do now? i have emailed my boss with the following this morning;

Can you forward me the pentalty notice, because i have not been driving my company car!

"So want proof to contest it, therefore also request you dont pay this penalty notice on my behalf.

Thanks "

Wig

Sounds like you have got the right idea,

Do you smoke?
Do you ever throw butts from your car?

If the answer to those questions is yes, I suspect the fine relates to the last time you did this, be that 3 months ago or whatever. Your union could help you. I would think the fine is the "property" (so to speak) of the accused and therefore they (your employer) cannot just decide you are guilty. Everyone has the right to appeal.

Also I thought the fine was £80.... I'll look into the £105 later.


IANAL

sarah1975uk

Also just thought is there a time limit on this particular penalty notice as there is with a speeding fine?

Wig

sarah1975uk wrote: »

Also just thought is there a time limit on this particular penalty notice as there is with a speeding fine?

If there is a timelimit, it won't be the same as the speeding type, because it is not an offence listed in Schedule 1 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act.

I suspect the relevant law will be
The Environmental Protection Act 1990

Conor_3

Also, an employer cannot make deductions from your wages without authorisation save NI/Income Tax and any court order.

Wig

Hi again,

It appears that you either live or work or drive within one of the London Boroughs. Because

The London Local authorities Act 2007
Section 24 "Litter from vehicles"
Says that where litter is thrown from a vehicle the correct recipient for the penalty charge is the registered keeper or vehicle owner.

The penalty can be contested by the owner if the owner believes the offence did not take place (from memory I think it was subsection (6)(b))

Also section 66 states that the penalty charges are flexible and to be set (and published) by each individual London Borough according to the severity of the offence and in relation to the costs (in pursuing the charge) to the local authority.

The offence is still an offence under the environmental Protection Act 1990 it's just that Section 88 subsection 7a allows for the London Local Authorities Act 2007 to take precedence so to speak.

I suspect this will explain the penalty of £105

Things to be concerned about are that there is a 28 day payment period (I think maybe 14 but I think it said 28) before the penalty rises. Now if the car is on lease from Car Lease Company XYZ, the penalty charge will have gone to them first (presumably) and they will have passed it onto the leasee (your employer). So time could be running out. or may have even run out.

I have no idea what happens if the time has now expired and the fee has increased, obviously you won't be a happy bunny if your fine has doubled to £200 due to delays of the fine reaching you.

So ignoring my previous replies. It would appear the fine is correct and has been correctly served.
The question of whether your employer can deduct fines recieved (and paid) from your wages is one I cannot be bothered to go into, it may be part of your employment contract, or car lease contract (with your employer).

I suggest if you have a history of throwing butts from your car you recall your letter to your employer and accept the fine.

sarah1975uk

Wig wrote: »

Hi again,

It appears that you either live or work or drive within one of the London Boroughs. Because

The London Local authorities Act 2007
Section 24 "Litter from vehicles"
Says that where litter is thrown from a vehicle the correct recipient for the penalty charge is the registered keeper or vehicle owner.

The penalty can be contested by the owner if the owner believes the offence did not take place (from memory I think it was subsection (6)(b))

Also section 66 states that the penalty charges are flexible and to be set (and published) by each individual London Borough according to the severity of the offence and in relation to the costs (in pursuing the charge) to the local authority.

The offence is still an offence under the environmental Protection Act 1990 it's just that Section 88 subsection 7a allows for the London Local Authorities Act 2007 to take precedence so to speak.

I suspect this will explain the penalty of £105

Things to be concerned about are that there is a 28 day payment period (I think maybe 14 but I think it said 28) before the penalty rises. Now if the car is on lease from Car Lease Company XYZ, the penalty charge will have gone to them first (presumably) and they will have passed it onto the leasee (your employer). So time could be running out. or may have even run out.

I have no idea what happens if the time has now expired and the fee has increased, obviously you won't be a happy bunny if your fine has doubled to £200 due to delays of the fine reaching you.

So ignoring my previous replies. It would appear the fine is correct and has been correctly served.
The question of whether your employer can deduct fines recieved (and paid) from your wages is one I cannot be bothered to go into, it may be part of your employment contract, or car lease contract (with your employer).

I suggest if you have a history of throwing butts from your car you recall your letter to your employer and accept the fine.

Omg i dont live or travel anywhere near london! Im in the east midlands. how bizzar what now?

Wig

Ok, I was thinking that you might say that.

In which case I will say the obvious recipient for the charge will be your employer, I'd have thought they would recieve a letter asking for the identity of the driver, but there might be a piece of legislation I have not found yet which relates to litter from vehicles outside London which treats the offender or vehicle owner in a similar manner. There may also be an update on the fine of £80 for all litter offences or a seperate piece of legislation regarding fines for litter from vehicles outside London.

I still say beware of delaying your employer from paying it because of the time limit for paying. By all means ask your employer (by phone?) for an urgent reply regarding the date , time and location of the alledged offence.

sarah1975uk

I have just had an email response from my employer...im not a happy bunny!

We will forward the penalty notice to you - unfortunately this
has already been paid therefore you will have to contest this directly with
the company involved.

OMG thought they werent allowed to take money without my authorisation? Except for NI TAX and my company expenses as buying drinks for my co workers (part of my job).

Help on best way to respond?

Optimist

I believe your employers have acted correctly and this would be an excepted deduction under the Employment Rights Act (1996).

The fine will come from a local authority as under section 87 of the EPA 1990 it is their responsibility although it does seem rather high as its usually between £50 to £80 but can be up to £2500 if they had taken you to court.

Do you smoke and do you/have you thrown your cigarette ends out of your car window ?

sarah1975uk

Optimist wrote: »

I believe your employers have acted correctly and this would be an excepted deduction under the Employment Rights Act (1996).

The fine will come from a local authority as under section 87 of the EPA 1990 it is their responsibility although it does seem rather high as its usually between £50 to £80 but can be up to £2500 if they had taken you to court.

Do you smoke and do you/have you thrown your cigarette ends out of your car window ?

I do smoke yes but no dont litter. Not permitted to smoke whilst in my company car either.