Direct debits

laalaa41

I should be happy - having landed a well-paid job which represents a decent increase in income just at the right time it seems. However while changing from weekly to monthly pay, Ive had terrible problems with some organisations and my bank when they were asked to do such a simple - move the payment dates a couple of days on.

No-one had a problem with this, most managed without incident but three have tried to withdraw at the previous date - incurring charges now standing at £300+ at the bank! Id written twice to the Bank Manager. Once saying that I was about to get this job and that I planned to change dates and the second enclosing my new contract and a spreadsheet showing the outgoings and the new dates for each debit. Id either changed the dates online, by telephone or in person a month before so they had plenty warning.

So in the period 21 - 25th Jan (instead of 28th), 2 direct debits were taken off, so the bank bounced two cheques TWICE through "insufficient funds" and the third direct debit appeared from nowhere from my optician who Id cancelled last September. Another transaction incurred another charge - at least they admitted fault but refuse to repay the bank charge!

The optician say they're paying me the £38. The latest one said they can't/wont despite acknowledging that someone there "hadnt done their job" - they had a record of my call - and the bank say they are contacting the other two to check if they have a record of the change of date and I quote "then and only then" will they refund the charges. The assumption being I'm a lying, cheating, idiot. Nice Customer Services eh?

After much research, I twigged that the right thing to do was to claim these charges back under the terms of the Direct Debit Guarantee. So I'm flailing around trying to get my money back because right now I have £30 to last till the 28th of February - when my monthly wage of £2000 is lodged!

Now I'm worried having Direct Debits AT ALL is just too dangerous because it seems like they're an open door to any organisation to take what and when they like! How am I supposed to budget then? The ordinary person is completely at the mercy of financial institutions and with this so-called "credit squeeze" the assumption appears to be that we are all in trouble simply because we have a couple of credit cards!

Also - my credit report must really stink now - I feel that its almost a conspiracy to screw me into the ground! That's probably why the bank havent had the decency to extend me a small (temporary) overdraft. Bearing in mind (and the bank manager areed) that for many years, my account has run perfectly with no concern at all. Ive never been late with payments to anyone!

So do I remove any Direct Debit arrangements I possibly can and does anyone believe the Direct Debit Guarantee is worth the paper it's written on? I need a hero.

Orford

From the FOS website:

The direct debit guarantee provides for the customer’s bank to refund disputed payments without question, pending further investigation. (For fuller information about the direct debit guarantee, see the April 2003 edition of ombudsman news).

If you have given them written notice of the changes, the bank has absolutely no excuse whatsoever. Go into the branch and tell them you are making a Direct Debit Indemnity claim (take confirmation in writing to give to them too). Insist that they refund any charges associated with their mistakes or you will complain to the FOS. For the FOS to investigate a consumer complaint costs the bank £400

laalaa41

Thank you for this. All this began on 25th January and it took till just last week for me to pour through google till it twigged about the DD Indemnity thing. So I've been in touch with the bank - their telephone customer services not the branch - (on these grounds) - their response was that they would check with the organisations concerned and I quote "if they agree - then and only then would the charges be refunded". One is the council tax (they dont start again till April) and the other is RAC who say they have no record of my call. So I took it to the next level and emailed the FOS from their site - no reply yet. I guess they're inundated!

So after reading your post, Im going to attach everything Ive sent to the bank, my statements etc to the FOS. I have NO faith in the bank who immediately took the negative view, didnt advise me of any rights I had under the guarantee and were totally intransigent. And ... although he was not outright rude, he used my name at the beginning of every sentence which became very intimidating as he just re-stated his "take" over and over again. "you should not have issued those cheques when there were insufficient funds". In fact, I'd left a "cushion" of £150 just in case someone DID make a mistake - I didnt count on three! He just wasnt listening. The amount of charges too doesnt reflect remotely the amount I would have been overdrawn either - £13.99!

I think the bank have behaved VERY badly here and it's going to take a long time to sort and I'm already exhausted by it all. I've had to borrow money from my mum who's on a pension.

YorkshireBoy

laalaa41 wrote: »

So I took it to the next level and emailed the FOS from their site - no reply yet. I guess they're inundated!

The FOS won't look into your complaint until you have exhausted the bank's complaints procedure and obtained a 'deadlock letter', which could take 8 weeks.

The words on the DD guarantee* are "full and immediate refund", so that's what you want. However, any associated consequential losses (eg bank charges) may not be covered under the DD guarantee. You may therefore need to ask for these refunding as a goodwill gesture, and go down the recognised reclaim route if the bank won't refund them.


* Don't mention the DD indemnity to the bank, as that's what they use to extract the money (they reimburse you) from the DD originator. You're filing a claim under the guarantee. Subtle, I agree, but best to use the correct terminology with the bank.

laalaa41

It was them (telephone banking) that used the word "indemnity" - Id quoted the guarantee. Fingers crossed. It's beginning to look like it's my word against theirs doesn't it. In that case, it's true - the DD Guarantee isnt worth the paper its written on.

I agree, one has to educate oneself on the correct terminology one uses in order to communicate with organisations. This is really not good. The implication is that the ordinary person in the street - who doesn't COMPLETELY understand terminologies - financial, legal, insurance etc - well we're stuffed basically. Oh they must laugh - all the way to the bank!

laalaa41

As a footnote, Egg called on Wednesday - a nice young man who sorted things out - they returned the £16 they levied to my account but would not repay the £38 the bank charged me. They were happy, my account up to date. On Friday someone from Egg called to demand payment and again today - just a minute ago. I'm at my wit's end! When they DO look back - they see everything's OK and they apologise but they "have no power" to move me from their "job list". So until the 28th of February, I can probably expect a call each day demanding payment.

dzug

The bank has not made any mistake - direct debits are dateless. Unlike standing orders, you cannot specify what date a direct debit goes out on - only the payee can do that. It's the payees who have made the mistakes.

Nevertheless the bank is being unhelpful - they should refund you, immediately, under the DD guarantee for the payees' mistakes.

laalaa41

That clinches it - Im getting rid of any direct debits I possibly can ASAP.

laalaa41

It mounts up. The total charges are now about £600+ - because the two cheques they bounced - twice within a day of eachother (can't they say "represent in two days?) then the money would have been there - well it WAS there before the DDs were taken out wrongly! I'm waiting for the FOS response, then I guess I should send my statements showing the charges for the cheques - and I'm worried about my credit rating now. RBS have done a pretty good hatchet job on me haven't they. Again - even IF they'd paid the cheques as well, I'd only have been £10 overdrawn for one whole day.

laalaa41

By the way - the bank HAS made at least three mistakes. They didnt mark the cheques "represent in two days", they didn't send the DDs back ("not correct date") and when they were talking to me while I was in bed with the flu and nowhere near my PC - didn't think to tell me what was going on behind my back. Hatchet job.

FlyHigh_2

Sorry to disappoint you laalaa41 but banks can only send back cheques with 2 options those being "refer to drawer" and "please represent", there is no please represent on xyz date option.

Also as its been mentioned before the banks don't control the dates/amounts of the DDs. This is controlled exclusively by the company (the originator). The banks don't even know what dates the DD should go out on, the originator contacts the bank when they want money and the bank pay it or not depending on if you have the funds.

Good luck getting this sorted, but you'll find the bank will be unhelpful as your complaint is mostly with the DD companies.