Points not delcared on insurance!

Morthunter

In November i had a accident it was not my fault someone ran over a break drum from a lorry in the road and tore the sump off his car, the oil then leaked out all over the road and i went over it and flew into the barrier at 60-65mph, i got home and started to get the insurance sorted, it was then i relised i had 3 points for speeding on my lisence , although i had the points added 3 years ago, they will have been on there for 4 years in may ive got the situation where the insurance company wants me to send my details over including my drivers lisence and i am worried that they wont give me the money for my car, my options are be honest tell them i forgot about the points and hope to god they give me my money for the car, or try and string the insurance company along till may until i can renew my lisence again and remove my points for good, but im losing sleep over this and i am very worried, can anyone give me some advice please. thanks in advance.

raskazz

Send them your licence, there is no point trying to delay the inevitable. You have to disclose motoring convictions to insurers for 5 years after the event, so the 4 year period for which convictions are on the licence for totting-up purposes is irrelevant. In addition, after numerous requests for your licence the insurer would be within their rights to point blank refuse to deal with the claim due to your non-cooperation if you refuse to produce it.

When they receive your licence they will ask you why you did not disclose the conviction. Then of course you grovel, express remorse and explain that it was a genuine oversight etc.

After they receive your response, if all other details were disclosed correctly and other aspects of the risk are good (no other convictions or fault claims) the most likely outcome is that the insurer will deal with the claim as long as you pay them the difference in premium that would have accrued had you informed them of the conviction at the correct time.

If you have been with them for 3 or four years they are more likely to deal wth this sympathetically.

Morthunter

thanks alot ive been worried about it for some time now, ill contact them first thing on monday and sort it out. /grovel mode

shelly

Morthunter wrote: »

it was then i relised i had 3 points for speeding on my lisence , although i had the points added 3 years ago, they will have been on there for 4 years in may <snip> my options are be honest tell them i forgot about the points

Sorry to be blunt but how have you only just realised you have 3 points that you have had for nearly 4 years? I don't believe anyone can have forgot about having them.

Quentin

There is no point "forgetting" to tell your insurers about convictions these days. They have access to a central big brother computer which has details of any endorsements on your licence.

Insurance companies aren't known for paying claims if they don't have to.

You have broken the terms of your insurance by not telling them and they will be within the terms of the policy to reject your claim - and ask for any increased premiums you should have been paying since getting the conviction and not telling them.

raskazz

Quentin wrote: »

There is no point "forgetting" to tell your insurers about convictions these days. They have access to a central big brother computer which has details of any endorsements on your licence.

Insurance companies aren't known for paying claims if they don't have to.

You have broken the terms of your insurance by not telling them and they will be within the terms of the policy to reject your claim - and ask for any increased premiums you should have been paying since getting the conviction and not telling them.

There is no 'central Big Brother computer', the only relevant database is the DVLA's database which insurers can only access by request with reasonable cause and signed consent from the licence holder. Hence why they ask the insured for copies of the licence.

They are not necessarily entitled to reject the claim in this case. They could only reject the claim in this case if there is evidence of fraud or if they would not have accepted the risk at any premium had they known about the offence (which is almost certainly not the case if it is a simple SP30).

Quentin

It is that computer I refer to - insurers, car hire companies etc can access the DVLA computer without any permission from the licence holder.

It is probably because of them knowing what the computer says which has prompted them to want to see his licence.

Contracts for motor insurance are based on the information given when taking out the policy.

The insurers cover themselves against false information by saying something like "check all information is correct, let us know if you need to make any changes. Failure to do so could invalidate the policy"

raskazz

Quentin wrote: »

It is that computer I refer to - insurers, car hire companies etc can access the DVLA computer without any permission from the licence holder.

No they cannot. The DVLA do not give driver licensing endorsement information without consent from the data subject and 'reasonable cause' from the insurer. Hence why they ask for copies of the licence - if it were possible to obtain the information merely by interrogating a database they would not waste time and resouces reqesting documents through the post. Some checks can be made by hire car companies, but only about the entitlement to drive under a licence, not what endorsements have been applied.

Edite to add: Here is the form that an insurer would have to send to request such information:

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/forms/d785.pdf

Quentin wrote: »

It is probably because of them knowing what the computer says which has prompted them to want to see his licence.

No, it is standard practice for most claims, especially theft or total loss.

Quentin wrote: »

Contracts for motor insurance are based on the information given when taking out the policy.

The insurers cover themselves against false information by saying something like "check all information is correct, let us know if you need to make any changes. Failure to do so could invalidate the policy"

Yes they do, but where non-disclosure is inadvertent then the insurer cannot repudiate on grounds of non-disclosure, unless they would not have accepted the risk at any price. As per:

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/46/46_non_disclosure_insurance.htm

Quentin

Anyone can easily keep a spare clean licence to show insurance companies, or anyone else.

Insurance companies do access the database and are informed of endorsements as are car hire companies - whereas previously no driving licence with you meant you weren't allowed to hire a car (sometimes disastrous for the driver after some emergency) thanks to this computer you now can - providing you have some other proof of identity to show.

The use of the computer by insurance companies may not be widely known, and by requesting the driving licence they do not need to refer to the intelligence they already have when communicating decisions to the policyholder who has witheld pertinent info.

raskazz

Insurers cannot access endorsement information from the DVLA without signed consent. I know this because I am an underwriter and used to deal with these enquiries day in day out.

Again, your point re: car hire is not stricly relevant. They can check entitlement but not endorsements.

Care to explain why the DVLA would place the aforementioned form on their website if the data could be accessed via a shared database?

http://www.licencecheck.co.uk/government_guidelines.php

"With the consent of the driver, information is available from the DVLA driver record. DVLA currently offers three ways through which customers can obtain information from the record.

Changes currently taking place within the Agency will bring significant improvements to customers. DVLA is currently undertaking a major re-platforming of its driver systems, which is bringing useful advantages for its many customers. The changes are being introduced in stages with online enquires by commercial organisations planned to be available in 2007.

In order to address the immediate need for organisations to conduct driving entitlement checks for large pools of drivers (200 or more), DVLA has developed the Driver Entitlement Checking Services (DECS). DECS uses CD-ROM media to exchange data between DVLA and the customer.

For customers who need to conduct checks at short notice, or wish to conduct checks over the course of each month, DVLA's Fee Paying Enquiry service will remain available (although submission of a paper mandate will still be required for each check).

In order to satisfy the provisions of the Data Protection Act and to protect the individual, DVLA requires the company to obtain a mandate signed by the licence holder authorising the Agency to release details of their driver record.

The facility for driver licence enquiry extends to Digital Tachograph Driver Cards information and, from 2009, Driver Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC)"

Quentin

I think I've said too much already. Really.

But you will know that a physical clean licence is not necessarily the correct picture these days, hence the greater use of computers.

Readers must decide which is the correct info here - though the main message is if you lie on your insurance proposal form, bear in mind it may seem alright but then go pearshaped if you make a claim.