Would an optional survey make HIPs useful?

Generali

Thanks. What is the qualification though? Is it like an apprentiship or do you do a course with exams for example? No axe to grind, just interested in this sort of thing.

chriserenity

Generali wrote: »

Thanks. What is the qualification though? Is it like an apprentiship or do you do a course with exams for example? No axe to grind, just interested in this sort of thing.

Oh. Well, the qualification is DipDEA - Diploma in Domestic Energy Assessment. Its a level 3 qualification roughly equivalent to an A level. The qual is taught in a variety of ways - some distance learning, some college taught and run in specialist training centres. Exams are involved, for myself I sat 2 at the end of my course then applied for my accreditation. I chose Elmhurst because they seemed very experienced in Energy Assessment compared to the other options.

Once qualified there is a requirement to do life long learning (CPD) for a set amount of time per year and yes, apprenticeships arn't common but do exist in some form e.g. I was helped in my house dating skills from a local chartered surveyor who's knowledge on the subject made it well worth it. Similarly, more experienced DEAs have been known to allow new entrants to shadow them to speed their learning curve.

Hope this answers your question.

Generali

Thanks. No offence meant but your profession is often characterised as being some tick-box fake surveyor. Interesting to know that you had to get a proper qualification and experience to do it. I had less experience than that and was handling billions a day in the back office of an international bank!

FWIW, I was in banking (userers bound for hell etc) now in hedge funds (described as locusts by the German finance minister IIRC a few years back).

jimc_2

chriserenity wrote: »

If the HCR were made mandatory all the DEAs would have to either retrain as HIs or leave the industry including me. Therefore industry feeling about the HCR is mixed.

I thought the original idea was that the HIP (with HCR) was a cooperation of surveyor and Energy Inspector and that one individual would not need to have all the skills for the process?

dekh

AFAIK this is what is legally required in a HIP:

• An index (ie a list of the contents of the HIP)
• A sale statement (summarising the terms of sale)
• Evidence of title (from the Land Registry?)
• Standard searches (ie local authority enquiries and a drainage and water search)
• An Energy Performance Certificate (EPC)
• Commonhold information (where appropriate)
• A copy of the lease (where appropriate)

I believe the EPC is the only new thing.

The last two I would guess will put the price up if they apply to the property for sale.

The HIPS have been around for a while now have they made any diference to the sale process?

At the moment all I can see is that it raises more tax for the government. VAT applies at the very least. OK I'm a cynic.

Any buyer is going to do their own searches anyway - buyer beware - their solicitor may insist on it and the only opinion I've heard from lenders is that they leave the decision about accepting the HIPS searches up to the buyers solicitor.

Is whether a property has a D or E energy rating actually gonna make a difference to a buyer? I believe one of the tick boxes is whether or not there are energy saving lightbulbs!!

chriserenity

jimc wrote: »

I thought the original idea was that the HIP (with HCR) was a cooperation of surveyor and Energy Inspector and that one individual would not need to have all the skills for the process?

Well a Home Inspector can produce both HCR and EPC while a DEA can only produce the latter. The only logical conclusion I can see (unless a partnership were involved) is the death of the role of DEAs in HIPs. They could continue to operate in the rental sector however since from October this year every Landlord will need to have an EPC.

In the beginning there were no DEAs, only Home Inspectors. The creation of the DEA role came about when the government made the decision to make the HCR a voluntary document.

I have sympathy for the Home Inspectors as most trained on the understanding that they would be providing HCRs (with an EPC included) to HIP providers. As far as I can see the only possible futures for the HCR are:

1. It is reinstated as a mandatory document in the HIP
2. It remains a voluntary document and takeup is in the hands of vendors/EAs seeing its value and OPTING to pay to include it or alternatively takeup remains at its current low levels.
3. It is commissioned by the Buyer as is the custom in the states. A group of HIs are working on this now. The HCR in this form would be comparable to RICS's homebuyers survey (I think).

chriserenity

Dekh,

Your list of HIP inclusions seems accurate. There are however more documents which are legally required in certain situations than the ones you listed e.g. the NHBC new homes warranty on new homes.

Most providers do charge extra for leasehold properties but if you can supply a copy of the lease to them there isn't any reason why they need to charge a premium.

If you want an honest opinion on whether they've made a difference ask a solicitor who routinely acts as a buyers conveyancer. They are the end users of the packs after all. Richard Webster is one such individual who often posts on this board.

Ha! Well if you don't want to pay VAT on your HIP get it from an Energy Assessor. Many DEAs provide high quality HIPs but don't produce sufficient volumes as to necessitate being VAT registered. The threshold is 64k I believe. Many DEAs don't earn more than £400 per month gross you see.

Searches can be relied on by the buyers solicitor and the mortgage lender - the insurance covers them as well as the HIP provider and vendor. Read the insurance on a local authority search if you don't believe me. PM me if you want a link to an online HIP.

Yes Energy Assessors work out the ratio of low energy lighting:incandescent lighting and factor it into the calculations along with lots of other pieces of data. The EPC's representation of the thermal and energy performance of the building is more accurate this way. It may seem trivial to consider such a small detail but I've done surveys where the lighting has made the difference between a property falling into a lower band or not.

Will the band of the property make a difference? Well i guess it depends on the buyer. Buyers are attracted to different traits in a property. I'm very conscious of energy efficiency so it would be among my foremost considerations when viewing a property. Similarly if you're broke and can only just afford the mortgage it may be even more important to you - the higher the band the less the property will cost in utility bills to heat and light. Equally similarly if you're a member of our upper middle classes for whom a low carbon footprint is fast becoming the new criteria for 'keeping up with the Joneses' a high EPC rating may be something to look for. On the other hand if you really want a pre victorian listed stone built lighthouse and you've money to burn with no social conscience then the EPC may make nice scrap paper!

Richard_Webster

If you want an honest opinion on whether they've made a difference ask a solicitor who routinely acts as a buyers conveyancer. They are the end users of the packs after all. Richard Webster is one such individual who often posts on this board.

Thank you for the plug, Chriserenity! As I have said before the main difference is the searches are available sooner. This is only makes a difference to the overall time-scale if the searches are the last thing waited for, and usually this will either be replies to enquiries raised by the buyer's solicitors or receipt of a mortgage offer.

Any buyer is going to do their own searches anyway - buyer beware - their solicitor may insist on it

Well, I haven't come across this yet. There are some minor differences between providers, but in practical terms a search is a search, and most solicitors do accept them... (I have not been a fan of HIPS, but this has been one of the weaker arguments against them.)

dekh

I got an online quote for a hip, sorry I forget where. It asked the area I live, gave me a breakdown of searches and a cost.

The searches didn't include a mining search. I live in North Tyneside. No solicitor would buy without one. They were mining coal here before the Romans right up until Maggie shut the pits.

So what value would that HIP have to a buyer's solicitor?

chriserenity

dekh wrote: »

I got an online quote for a hip, sorry I forget where. It asked the area I live, gave me a breakdown of searches and a cost.

The searches didn't include a mining search. I live in North Tyneside. No solicitor would buy without one. They were mining coal here before the Romans right up until Maggie shut the pits.

So what value would that HIP have to a buyer's solicitor?

Its similar where I am - the Doncaster, South Yorkshire area is riddled with mines and pits so in many areas a mining search is standard. The options are to include the mining search in the HIP (should be about £25/£35 extra) or the solicitor would do the mining search independent of the HIP.