Victim of Cheque Fraud - Help Please!!

doddod

Hi all,

I've got so much great advice from this site in recent months and never thought I'd be sharing an experience like this.

I decided to sell the family car at a local auction centre, in early December 2007 and have had nothing but problems since the sale went through. The auction centre I used is well established, has branches nationwide and its website boasts that it is "Europe's No.1 Vehicle Remarketing Company".

After completion of the sale, on Sat 1st December, I was advised by the auction centre that I would be sent a cheque, less their comission, within a week. I was due to receive approx. £2,100.

The cheque did not arrive, so the following week I phoned the auction house to chase my payment. The lady I spoke to did not seem suprised and said that they had a "lot of cheques" go missing in the last week or so. She took my details and called back a couple of days later to say that they had stopped the first cheque, issued a replacement and it was already in the post.

The cheque duly arrived a day later and I banked it within a few days.

Move forward to 18th January 2008, and to my surprise I receive a letter from my bank, with the cheque from the auction centre enclosed, stamped PAYMENT STOPPED. My bank's letter stated that the cheque had been returned unpaid.

I phoned the auction centre immediately and after being passed from one dept to another, was finally asked to contact their head office and speak to the payments dept. I was then advised by a 'manager' within this dept. that the reason that the 2nd cheque had been stopped was that after issuing it, the auction centre discovered that the first cheque had been cashed.

The person I spoke to went on to say that as far as his dept. was concerned a cheque had been issed in my name and was subsequently cashed. As far as the auction centre was concerned their responsibility was over and they advised I could try and contact the police to see if they could help!!!

I insisted on proof of where and how the cheque had been cashed and they sent me a copy of the cashed cheque. It appears it had been submitted to a "Cash Convertors" type shop and had been cashed over the counter minus a 5% comission.

The auction centre refuse to change their stance and state that they have fulfilled all their obligations in the transaction and cannot help any further.

Since selling the family car on 1st December 2007, over two months later I have not received a penny in payment and am stuck as to what my options are now. We cannot afford to replace the car until we recieve the money owed.

Any help or advice would be very very appreciated!

mrke

Good luck sorting this out.
I guess you will have to contact the police first of all, however if the auction group are aware of recent fraud with other cheques going missing then surely they also must of reported this and should of amended their procedures?

mdj1

As far as I am aware it is the obligation of the company who wrote the cheque to file a claim with their bank as the cheque has been processed fraudelently.

They are just trying to pass the blame and the work load that goes with it.

I would consider going to see the CAB and or speaking to your bank.

Defo speak to the police, but i feel you may have to take this through the courts to get your money back.

Somerset

About six years ago the company I worked for had this happen. Cheque sent to supplier, intercepted, payee changed and used to buy cars from dealer. Point is, we, the company sorted it out. We issued a replacement cheque to the supplier, Barclays dealt with the fraud and reimbursed us, and the police came and took a statement. Ok, Barclays were onboard but there was never any question that the supplier would be left 'stuck'. I think the auction centre is responsible for dealing with this fraud.

RayWolfe

It is the auction house's problem, not yours.

doddod

Thanks for the advice so far.

I've got an appointment this afternoon with my local police station. The police woman I spoke to said that although she was no expert in this area, as far as she was aware as the fraud had been comitted against the auction centre as their cheque had been intercepted, the responsibility was therefore with the auction centre to report the fraud. They should also be insured for this and therefore re-issue me a new cheque.

I'll post an update this evening.

John_Pierpoint

I used to be proud of the fact that I carried an uncrossed cheque book; but about 15 years ago the rules were changed, so that scribbling your name on the back of cheques and then using them as currency, became much more difficult.

I think you will find that the risk is carried by the "Cash Converters Type Company" as they presumably gave value for the bill of exchange involved and did not deposit it in the correct A/C???

I expect a banker will come by soon and can give us chapter and verse on the legal position. Don't assume you will be talking to an expert at the local cop shop as they don't think "petty" fraud is a crime any more. Expect to be fobbed off back to the banking system. Insurance has got nothing to do with it, unless you paid for the insurance.

Have you read the (pages?) of terms and conditions you agree to when you entered into a contract with the auction house? I'll offer you pint of beer to a glass of milk it says the "........will be paid by cheque sent by first class post AT THE RISK OF THE SELLER"; but did you read them?

Please please let us know how you get on by posting back here.

John_Pierpoint

mrke wrote: »

Good luck sorting this out.
I guess you will have to contact the police first of all, however if the auction group are aware of recent fraud with other cheques going missing then surely they also must of reported this and should of amended their procedures?

It is probably the Post Office that needs to get a grip and stop employing scumbags probably via agencies.
People like auction houses need to learn how to pay proceeds directly into their client's bank accounts, but perhaps some of the low life in the second hand car business don't want that? A bit too traceable and taxable?

Mikeyorks

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

I think you will find that the risk is carried by the "Cash Converters Type Company" as they presumably gave value for the bill of exchange involved and did not deposit it in the correct A/C???

You made the valid point I intended to - that's spot on. It is up to the auction house to recover their money (not the OPs .. they should pay him now) .... from the Cash Converter. These companies take a risk by taking cheques from strangers - and they've been caught on this one. I've never quite understood how they convert their cheques .. as the Cheques Act 1992 makes it quite clear the cheque has to be paid (reasonable assumption it's crossed?) into an account in the name of the payee.

It is probably the Post Office that needs to get a grip and stop employing scumbags probably via agencies

That would also have been a valid point .. back in 1990/91. It was intercepts within the mail stream .. particularly Mount Pleasant, that gave rise to the Cheques Act in 1992. But Royal Mail have significantly tightened their security (manpower checks / CCTV) in the interim. The profile of this one (outbound mail to private addresses .. as opposed to inbound to Credit Card companies / HMRC etc) suggests the intercept is more likely someone attached to the auction house?

doddod

Just got back from my local police station. The female police officer was as helpful as she could have been, having admitted at the outset that there was nobody currently present at the station that specialised with fraud cases of this type.

She confirmed however that the responsibility lies with the auction house and the bank they use to issue their cheques. It is up to them to contact the 'Cash Coverter' and resolve the problem between them. The issuing bank's own internal fraud investigation team will only begin to investigate once prompted by the auction house.

The police officer also confirmed that it is very frustrating for the police when large companies send out cheques by standard mail, in envelopes with company logos and the cheques made payable to the person by simply having the initial and the surname, with not even a Mr, Mrs, etc. included. This makes fraud so much easier.

She also advised not to speak to them on the phone and all correspondence to be done in writing. The next letter I write should include a realistic time limit by which the they should issue full payment and then a threat of legal action through the small claims court if the payment is not forthcoming.

After all the advice so far from this site and the police this evening, I feel more confident that I will eventually get my money paid in full, especially as I know the law is on my side.

Although I'm sure it will be a time consuming process. Will keep you posted!!

mdj1

HI Doddod

Just something to concider

When you write the letter, might be an idea to word it saying that you have looked into the matter, seeking the advice of the police and the legal profession and they have said that it is up to them to instruct their banks fraud team bla bla bla. You may get further than saying, give me my money. Very unlikely but it might be a one off and they don't know where they stand! IF you then don't get anywhere, send a second more agressive letter threatenening court action. Send it special delivery so that they know you mean business and put a time scale on it. If they reach this time scale, file a small claim via mcol the same day, they will receive their court papers the following day. This would probably be enough for them to pay up!