Planning permission consents

Jabes

I am selling my house. My buyer's solicitor says:

The surveyor has pointed out that there have been kitchen alterations/extension and removal of the ground floor partitions. Bearing in mind that this is a Listed Building perhaps you would kindly let us have copies of all relevant Planning and Building Regulartion Consents together with Listed Building Consent.


However, I have never had these. The alterations were done when I moved into the house (1999) and I don't know anything about it! Should I be worried?

RiskAdverse100

If the building is listed then you should be very concerned.

Carrying out works to a listed building without obtaining Listed Building Consent is a criminal offence and there is no time limit for taking enforcement action.

The fact that these works were carried out by a previous owner is not relevant.

You need to contact the planning department as soon as possible to apply for retrospective permission.

I cannot see you being able to sell the property without this being resolved.

A helpful link is:
https://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_planning/documents/page/odpm_plan_606900-04.hcsp

RiskAdverse100

Squidgy

I'd be more worried that your surveyor didn't spot it when you brought the house.

GreenB_2

Planning permission may well have been given - you need to check with your local council planning dept. Yo may not need to apply for this permission as it may have already been done - you just haven't any documentation to prove it either way.

Your solicitor should be able to help and advise.

Jabes

GreenB wrote:

Planning permission may well have been given - you need to check with your local council planning dept. Yo may not need to apply for this permission as it may have already been done - you just haven't any documentation to prove it either way.

Your solicitor should be able to help and advise.

I just rang my solicitor, concerned about some of these replies. He said that he didn't think there was a problem and if there was we would just offer to purchase an indemnity insurance. Maybe it's not such a big deal?

Best wishes
James

RiskAdverse100

I would be amazed if your solicitor was able to find an insurance company prepared to offer indemnity insurance for work carried out to a listed building without Listed Building Consent. Assuming the property is listed (and I hope that you would know whether or not this is the case!) then your only option is to contact the local authority and apply for LBC for what has already been done. If the local authority would have given LBC at the time then this should not be a problem (although it will cost money and take time).

RiskAdverse100

lush_walrus

Jabes wrote:

I am selling my house. My buyer's solicitor says:

The surveyor has pointed out that there have been kitchen alterations/extension and removal of the ground floor partitions. Bearing in mind that this is a Listed Building perhaps you would kindly let us have copies of all relevant Planning and Building Regulartion Consents together with Listed Building Consent.


However, I have never had these. The alterations were done when I moved into the house (1999) and I don't know anything about it! Should I be worried?

Is your house Grade 11 or Grade 1 listed?

Grade 11 covers external listing with some internal elements such as fireplaces, original cornicing etc,Grade 1 is far more detailed listing.

This is a problem in that it is punishable (generally fines or insisting that features are reinstated, extensions are removed) by the local authority. However, the solicitor is coming from an angle different to this which is why he is saying its not a problem. His angle is whether the sale will still go through, or whether your buyer will pull out, not whether your house is 'legal' or not. Your buyer may well choose to continue with the sale and apply for permission retrospectively, or ignore the issue completely. Which will mean that you will sell the house, and the new buyer will take the risk of whether this will be an issue inthe future. your buyer may well be advised by their solicitor to do this (general practice is that they will of course buyers dont always listen to their solicitors either if they have fallen in love with a property). The solicitor may also advise that if they do continue with the sale they ask for a reduction in price (often happens incases where buyers are determined to still buy the house, if their solicitor suggests this then be prepared that the buyer will definately try to pursue that one). Or I hate to say it your buyer will simply be worried about the implications of buying a house without permisson and pull out.


Your options are to wait and see what happens, with your solicitor communicating with theirs and see how it pans out with regard to your buyer (pulling out or not). Or your other option is to start applying for listed building concent in retrospect (planning and listed building concent are now combined in cases of listed buildings rahter than separate forms as was still the case two or three years ago).

Don't panic about your situation too much it is solvable in terms of the above. If I were you I would first test out what your buyer wants to do, then if theydo pull out, put in applications for the work carried out in 99. Planners are approachable people, so go to your planning department and speak to the duty planner (call first as often they are available to the public for limited hours, generally the morning). Explain your situation, and ask them for help in how to formally apply etc. If your buyer does pull out, DO put yourself forward, if you do you will be dealing with the planners, if you hide you will be dealing with enforcement officers, who in my experience are not always as understanding. And if the enforcement officers are brought in you will have committed and offence, if you appky retrospectively you will have your application considered and it will be viewed more as a genuine mistake.

On a side if you can prove that your solicitor did not inform you of the situation, youmay well stand in a good position to recover your costs from them, as this is their job to discover this as part of the system of local searches. Therefore, if they havent they have been negligent in their job, and can be struck off the register, so will be quite egger to assist with costs. If they dont, I can give you the details of the law society which is where your complaint and persuance of compensation will need to go (only if they dont assist you).

RiskAdverse100

It is not clear from what Jabes has said that the works were definitely carried out without obtaining Listed Building Consent. The buyer's solicitor has raised a question based on a survey report and may not have the results of the local authority search.

It might be a good idea to have a look at the local authority's website. Many of them now have a search facility on their planning pages and you can look at a property to see what planning applications have been submitted and what planning decisions have been made.

Some go back 10 or more years while others only have very recent entries.

Another very relevant question to ask is if the buyer is taking out a mortgage.

If he is then, regardless of the risk the buyer might be prepared to take on this (and bear in mind the penalties in the Crown Court for this offence are an unlimited fine or 2 years imprisonment!) the solicitor will be also acting for the lenders. It will be very clear from the lenders instructions to the solicitor that they will not lend on a property where works have been carried out to a listed property without Listed Building Consent being obtained.

Assuming therefore that the buyer's solicitor is competent, the buyer is taking out a mortgage and the works were done without Listed Building Consent being obtained then the sale is going no further until retrospective permission has been obtained.

RiskAverse100

Jabes

RiskAdverse100 wrote:

I would be amazed if your solicitor was able to find an insurance company prepared to offer indemnity insurance for work carried out to a listed building without Listed Building Consent.

I believe the modification was done before the house was listed (the house was built in 1850 so isn't _that_ old). The area it is in is listed as a conservation area.

Jabes

lush_walrus wrote:

Is your house Grade 11 or Grade 1 listed?

It's Grade II. I think (but not sure) it was listed when a conservation act was passed on the area (which was 1990)

lush_walrus wrote:

Don't panic about your situation too much it is solvable in terms of the above. If I were you I would first test out what your buyer wants to do, then if theydo pull out, put in applications for the work carried out in 99.

Ah, maybe some confusion with what I said there. I moved into the house in 1999. The work was done long before that, probably 60s or 70s judging by the kitchen that was in there.

Best wishes
James

lush_walrus

Jabes wrote:

It's Grade II. I think (but not sure) it was listed when a conservation act was passed on the area (which was 1990)



Ah, maybe some confusion with what I said there. I moved into the house in 1999. The work was done long before that, probably 60s or 70s judging by the kitchen that was in there.

Best wishes
James

Ah well if the work was carried out that long ago, I think you will find that it is not a problem. Work carried out prior to a building being listed is obviously not an issue for the conservation officers, no one will apply for permission for something prior to it being listed.

Also the Planning Act only actually came into force in 1947, so it could be that the work was carried out prior to the act and therefore not have required permission. Check into it at your local authority planning department, but by the sounds of your situation you really have nothing to worry about.