What happens to brother if mum goes into care?

Jays

Can anyone give me some advice?

My brother, 41 years old, still lives with my elderly and frail mother. He does not earn much and essentially she supports him.

She owns her own house and I am beginning to wonder what will happen if she has to go into care.

I think I understand that her house is no longer sold to finance the care package, but a debt maybe drawn against the value of the house and claimed after she dies.

My question is about how my brother would manage to live in her house whilst she is in care. I presume her pensions are used for her care package, and that means they would not be available to pay the house bills ie gas, electricity, rates, insurance etc. My brother would not be able to pay these bills so I wondered what Social Services might offer.

Any ideas or suggestions please,
Many thanks,
Jays

dmg24

Is your brother in full time employment? What is his income?

I doubt social services would help your brother, unless he had particular care needs?

Jays

Thanks for your reply, dmg24

No he doesn't have any care needs. He is a HGV driver but only works through an agency, so it is not regular work. I don't know what he earns really but know he does not have much money to spend generally, he saves a little to use when he can't get any work.

I didn't think Social Services would help him directly, but would they close the house down as he can't pay the bills and see him homeless. He's lived with her for 15 years, and been her general carer when she has been ill but can't really cope with her as she becomes more and more frail. If he continues to live in the house, he is at least maintaining it.

I wondered if they have a duty of care to him in any way?
Jays

Poppy9

Your brother is not going to be treated differently to any other child still living in the parents home because he has been a carer if he has no special needs.

If your brother wishes to continue to live in the house alone then he will be expected to take over all the bills. If he says he is maintaining the house in lieu of paying rent to your mother this maybe taken into account as part of your mothers income for assessing her contribution to her care package. Generally when a person enters care they will be assessed on all their income (benefits, pension etc) and assets and their contribution rate will be decided upon. Typically a LA residential home costs about £350 per week for residential care. Nursing home care which is usually about £100 per week extra is picked up by the NHS in Wales - don't know if it's the same in England. If the weekly cost for your mother is £350 her pensions/benefits will be taken towards this cost by the LA (she will be left a small amount of pocket money - last time I had anything to do with this it was just £13). This will not meet the full £350 so your mother will be assessed to contribute towards the balance based on her income/assets.

It's too late for your mother to try to sign the house over to your brother and even selling it at a reduced price to him will be picked up upon.

Jays

Thanks Poppy9

That's about what I thought, just hoping I'd missed something.

I understand SS don't sell the house but charge against it and claim when it becomes part of mum's estate. If my brother has to move out, does that just mean we lock it up? Does SS allow anything to pay the essential bills, ie I presume there would be some rates and probably building insurance at least.

Many thanks
Jays

seven-day-weekend

Our son lives in our house in the UK and can't really afford to keep it on his own.

So he has two lodgers and their rent goes towards the bills.

Maybe your brother could do something like this?

Sorry can't help wih advice about the care package.

wolfehouse

they were discussing this on radio 4 (bbc) just the other day and said to watch out because they will deduct her care bills from the house value but you allowed to keep something like $27,000 (or thereabouts). so if they reach that amount, they should stop deducting.

you might try the bbc carers site (put up for their 'carers month'):
http://www.carers.org/

sarahlouise210

It seems to me that now would be a good time for your brother to get a full time job - as he has no care needs of hisown he should be able to do this and could take a lower paid job and have the income topped up with tax credits (payable if you are over 25 on a low income even without children!)

He has probably fallen into the trap of an easy life with your Mum over the last 15 years while she has been supporting him - sadly due to the current circumstances he will have to take on the responsibilities of paying for the house. He may need to be directed to this website for advice on many matters if he had never had to budget before !

Poppy9

Jays wrote: »

If my brother has to move out, does that just mean we lock it up? Does SS allow anything to pay the essential bills, ie I presume there would be some rates and probably building insurance at least.

Many thanks
Jays

Your brother doesn't have to move out if your mother goes into a home but if he remains he would have to pay "rent" to your mothers estate. All repair and maintaince costs should be met by your mother, funded by the rent she gets from her tenant i.e.. your brother. You would need to keep all receipts for any work done to verify the costs involved. It doesn't have to be just emergency maintenance work it could be replacement windows but as your mother owns the house these are her costs not her tenants.

Sevendayweekend raised a good point about renting out your mother's house to pay her care costs. Depending on how much per week your mother is assessed to contribute this might be a way to "protect" her home. Elderly people are more distressed about losing their home than about the paying for their care. i.e. if your mother is assessed to pay £100 per week you should easily be able to rent the house out for this amount. Your brother would then have a choice of paying market rent to cover your mother's care home fees, moving out or taking in a lodger to help. If a lodger is paying say £70 per week including all bills then your brother should also contribute the same amount per week, giving your mother an income of £140 per week. The £100 goes to her care costs and the £40 can be for repairs and renewals. The council will then not place a charge on her house/estate. After your mother's death if she is survived by you and your brother you would inherit as normal. This is taxable income for your mother so you would have to complete a tax return even though she would only pay tax on a proportion of the rent. It will also affect means tested benefits if she is in receipt of any.

One of my friends rents out his mother's house and it's enabled him to place his mother in a 'nicer' home and she feels happy that her "home" still exists though she realistically knows she won't be returning to it.

Conor_3

As a HGV driver who has done agency work for most of my career, I can't understand how he can claim to not have enough money and expect his parents to support him. I don't know where you are but in the lower paid areas, agency HGV drivers are on about £7/£8hr with areas around major cities rising to £9/hr and the Midlands going up to £10/hr all with time and a half after 8 hours per day and an average workign day of 11 hours. So if you live in Northampton for example, you're doing really badly as a HGV driver on agencies not to gross £150 a day.

He sounds like a right workshy fop and he's going to get one hell of a wake up call. There's HGV driving jobs growing on trees at the moment - there's tons of them so there's no excuse for him not going and getting a permanent job. Looks like he's stayed on the agencies so he can toss it off at home most of the week.

If I were you Jays, I'd not be worrying about him. He's a grown adult in a job where you have to DELIBERATELY choose not to work because there's so much of it about so he's created his own situation.

Social Services owe him nothing.

sebastianj

Not sure about this, but if he is at a low income, would he not get housing benefits to pay towards his Mum's estate?
seb