Why a bank charges win doesn’t mean the end of ‘free banking’ blog discussion

MSE_Martin

Sorry folks this was put in the wrong forum - and should've been in the appearances board so its being moved.

To make one quick point though

Lots of discussion about reclaiming and one little line at the bottom saying "the best way to deal with them is still to avoid them". A bit more advice on that wouldn't be unappreciated by many.

This whole site is about managing money effectively in the Bank accounts, student accounts, graduate accounts and bank charges article itself there's lots written on this. There's also the budget planner, piggybank budgeting and more to help people. The reason there was only one line was because ths blog wasn't on that subject.

Martin

chipbeck

MSE_Martin wrote: »

Sorry folks this was put in the wrong forum - and should've been in the appearances board so its being moved.

To make one quick point though



This whole site is about managing money effectively in the Bank accounts, student accounts, graduate accounts and bank charges article itself there's lots written on this. There's also the budget planner, piggybank budgeting and more to help people. The reason there was only one line was because ths blog wasn't on that subject.

Martin

Fair point Martin and I'm sure you'll agree that if everybody did manage their money properly you'd have more time to play golf (or whtever takes your fancy). The worrying thing to me is that some posters may be better served posting on pontificating.expert.com. People do not visit the site to feel belittled they come to seek guidance.

jamesd

'“lots of new credit cards have been introduced because of the OFT case”.

This makes no sense.'

Correct. It's new charges, not new cards, that have been introduced. Some opportunities are just too tempting to resist...

Trivia: "feriously". "Any bank who": banks aren't people: which or that.

WestonDave

Interesting blog and I agree with plenty of it as far as it goes.

However I tend to disagree with the view that if banks were going to introduce charges they would have already. As things stand at present there has been plenty of money to be made picking the low hanging fruit in the shape of those too disorganised in their finances to avoid penalty charges. I agree with Mark above - serious family meltdown aside in 99% of cases it should be possible to avoid going into unauthorised overdraft which is where most of these charges arise. If 99% of the population had wised up to this penalty charges would barely register on the radar and banks would have done what they will do if the court case is a "success" and moved on to other ways of generating their £40bn a year. With £40bn of easy pickings around coming from penalty charges and the commission on selling products like savings, pensions etc to your "good" customers (i.e. those that don't break the rules and pay you nice penalty fees) why stray into the difficult ballpark of trying to get even more from the "good" customers at the risk of driving them and what revenue they already generate to the competition. Its always going to be easier to fleece the unaware and that sadly has been what has happened.

If this case causes a significant number of people to wise up to their need to manage their finances to their advantage rather than the banks then it will have done some good. If however all it does is give people a quick cash hand out and leave them equally unenlightened in the face of the banks next money spinnning wheeze then I think people will be justified in criticising this campaign as grabbing the easy headlines and quick buck without trying hard enough to sell the unpopular message that you have to do the work to manage your finances.

Frankly in my view it would help if articles like this were less rose tinted "it'll all be alright post court case" and were more realistic about the fact that if this door shuts to the banks they'll be after people in other ways. Don't lets pretend that the banks decided to follow an illegal course deliberately - they did what most other businesses would do and went for the easiest money. If people don't learn to watch out for that the next big campaign will be to save the hapless from the next mess they've got themselves into. My fear is that we will see banks closing off sectors of the market to customers whose only current worth is as cash cows for penalties - I'm not convinced that gets those people a lot further forward as the segments of market left open to them will be less attractive than those open to those who currently pay no fees.

None of that need detract from the view that the level of bank charges is potentially illegal/immoral.

MSE_Martin

Quite right it was meant to say "credit card charges" a typo on my behalf.

I've also increased the section about "avoiding charges"

Plus pls remember this isn't the official link anymore that's in the martins appearances board.

rog2

chipbeck wrote: »

And finally is there any chance we can have a bank charges discussion thread where tootsie doesn't come on and tell us all what plonkers we are for going overdrawn etc.

Pigs will probably grow wings first, cb - nice thought though. :T :T

Smasher

N_E_Juan wrote: »

I certainly don't agree and I suggest that may be the reason you have incurred charges (if you have - I really don't know).

Yes I did have charges, no that wasn't the reason. They started on a business account years ago. I got into trouble when some big customers paid extremely late (to put it mildly). Then the charges started to snowball. I went into my branch & pleaded with them to give me an overdraft to cover the charges because they were taking out more in charges than I could pay in. They refused & continued fleecing me until a friend lent me the money to put a stop to it. This had also led to yet more charges on my personal account.

All the "financial education" in the world couldn't put a stop to that situation once it had started & it was a prime example of how charges are designed to "pin you down" in debt wherever possible in order to keep applying more.. I can't tell you the enormous pleasure I got from getting it ALL back plus interest and costs. Around £5k in all.

N_E_Juan wrote: »

Spreadsheets are really very easy to use and failing that a good old pen and piece of paper. I simply write out what I have coming in and then list everything going out regardless of when in the month it actually does go out. I can balance down to the penny every month. I don't pay any attention to the balance displayed on screen when taking money out.

Good for you mate, I'll hang my head in shame for not being quite as organised.

Mark7799

rog2 wrote: »

Aren't you the clever one, then?
Not everybody is blessed with your mathematical genius - seems a bit hard that they should incur charges because they are not totally mathematically competent.

But we are not talking of being mathematical geniuses here - all is needed is the knowledge to add up and take away - and be in control of your finances - not letting others control them for you. Do you really think that is a bad idea?

Phoenixx73

Maybe slightly off topic but it was mentioned in the last paragraph of Martin's blog,

This nation is financially ignorant. I agree with that sentiment as I class myself as one of them. If not for this site I would be paying a fortune more for Car and Pet insurance without the level of protection i have as a result of MSE. but i digress as my story is probably the same as everyone elses here.

My point is this. Has Martin (or some other person/entity) who is not interested in doing a good thing for others without profit, been in touch with the education secretary about building a curriculum to be taught in Schools as compulsory (like maths and English)? That is what we realy need. My generation and those who came before may have an uphill struggle with trying to learn the things we were never taught from places like this site, but if it was taught in schools as compulsory we would see a huge fall in the financial illiteracy we suffer from now, we would see much more transparent and fairer level playing fields in the consumer sector as companies, banks and services would slowly come to realize that they are no longer dealing with the ignorant masses but with educated people who will see straight through their little games. Sure, it would probably explode the way business is run in this country and it would take many years to level out again, but what would you rather have? Rip off Britain, or a fairer deal for every one and the knowledge that your kids are less likely to end up in the same mess that a lot of us have?

My apologies, that turned into something of a rant, we now return to your regular programming.

Mark7799

Phoenixx73 wrote: »

.

My point is this. Has Martin (or some other person/entity) who is not interested in doing a good thing for others without profit, been in touch with the education secretary about building a curriculum to be taught in Schools as compulsory (like maths and English)? That is what we realy need. My generation and those who came before may have an uphill struggle with trying to learn the things we were never taught from places like this site, but if it was taught in schools as compulsory we would see a huge fall in the financial illiteracy we suffer from now, we would see much more transparent and fairer level playing fields in the consumer sector as companies, banks and services would slowly come to realize that they are no longer dealing with the ignorant masses but with educated people who will see straight through their little games. Sure, it would probably explode the way business is run in this country and it would take many years to level out again, but what would you rather have? Rip off Britain, or a fairer deal for every one and the knowledge that your kids are less likely to end up in the same mess that a lot of us have?

My apologies, that turned into something of a rant, we now return to your regular programming.

I agree with your sentiments. The topic has been discussed on these boards before - on a previous occasion the teaching fraternity's objections were centred around there being too much compulsory material to cover already. Personally, I would have thought there could be a way found of incorporating this into the maths syllabus at least.