Electric socket next to dryer vent pipe?

zebidee1

We're getting our kitchen refitted and whilst the plasterboard was off the wall, the joiner said it was better to re-site an under worktop socket further down the wall so it was just above skirting height instead of being immediately under the worktop. He said that most appliances have a slight recessed area near the bottom of them and the plug would sit there neatly and the appliance wouldn't stick out anymore than it had to. (The top of the socket is 15cm from the floor.)

Made sense to us so the socket got moved. Problem is, there is a rigid plastic 4" pipe right next to it which goes through the wall to the outside.....the tumble dryer gets vented through here, the dryer's hose goes into the rigid pipe.

There is literally only an inch between the side of the pipe and the side of the socket.

Two things concern me.......heat from the dryer (but then loads of dryers are plugged in to an undercounter socket, maybe higher up though ) and also possible moisture issues (although possibly moisture might only escape if the flexible dryer hose was damaged)?

There isn't an option to re-site the socket back higher up as the cable has been shortened and it wont reach now. If the cable was to be renewed it would involve a lot of work and the new floor that's just been laid would need lifted and I really dont want to do that. It cant even go sideways because there are stud uprights either side of it (which is probably why it got put where it did).

The only options that I can see are -:

a) Use the way it is.

b) Seal off vent pipe and buy a condenser dryer.

How much of a problem is this please?

brightontraveller

zebidee1 wrote: »

We're getting our kitchen refitted and whilst the plasterboard was off the wall, the joiner said it was better to re-site an under worktop socket further down the wall so it was just above skirting height instead of being immediately under the worktop. He said that most appliances have a slight recessed area near the bottom of them and the plug would sit there neatly and the appliance wouldn't stick out anymore than it had to. (The top of the socket is 15cm from the floor.)

Made sense to us so the socket got moved. Problem is, there is a rigid plastic 4" pipe right next to it which goes through the wall to the outside.....the tumble dryer gets vented through here, the dryer's hose goes into the rigid pipe.

There is literally only an inch between the side of the pipe and the side of the socket.

Two things concern me.......heat from the dryer (but then loads of dryers are plugged in to an undercounter socket, maybe higher up though ) and also possible moisture issues (although possibly moisture might only escape if the flexible dryer hose was damaged)?

There isn't an option to re-site the socket back higher up as the cable has been shortened and it wont reach now. If the cable was to be renewed it would involve a lot of work and the new floor that's just been laid would need lifted and I really dont want to do that. It cant even go sideways because there are stud uprights either side of it (which is probably why it got put where it did).

The only options that I can see are -:

a) Use the way it is.

b) Seal off vent pipe and buy a condenser dryer.

How much of a problem is this please?

I’m puzzled as to why a joiner is advising you on the electrical installations telling you to move sockets etc as there are regulations as to heights is this work being carried out by a competent person who is registered with a Part P Self-Certification Scheme

From 1 January 2005, the design, installation, inspection and testing of electrical installations is controlled under Part P of the Building Regulations. Small jobs such as the provision of a socket-outlet or a light switch on an existing circuit will not need to be notified to Building Control (although there will be some exceptions for high risk areas know as special locations, such as kitchens and bathrooms). As you are doing works in a kitchen You should be using a Part P (electrician) they would be able to access the works and ensure that they meet regulations… unless you are using the Submit a Building Regulations application route if you are your local building control will be able to tell you,


All work that involves adding a new circuit to a dwelling, or electrical work in kitchens and bathrooms or in ‘special locations’ will need to be either notified to Building Control with a building regulations application, or carried out by a competent person who is registered with a Part P Self-Certification Scheme.


There are two routes available to applicants to ensure that they comply with Part P:
1. Use an electrician/installer who is registered with a Competent Persons Scheme, in which case a building regulations application will not be required for the electrical work. We would strongly encourage the use of electricians/installers who are registered with a Competent Persons Scheme.


2. Submit a Building Regulations application| to the Local Authority:
(A) Where an electrician registered with a recognised trade body such as NICEIC, ECA and NAPIT (who need not be registered under a competent persons scheme) tests the work and issues a design, installation and test certificate under BS 7671, Building Control will accept the certificate as evidence that the work complies with Part P. Additional inspections by Building Control may also be carried out in conjunction with the acceptance of a certificate.


(B) Where the work is carried out by an unregistered electrician or is a DIY installation, the applicant is required to have the work inspected and tested by a registered electrician as in (A) above and provide a copy of the certificate to the Local Authority.

zebidee1

Thanks for that, but I'm told that none of it applies in this case? The existing socket got moved around 60cm, that's all, so no 'new installation/no adding extra socket' etc?

I'm aware there are many electricians who themselves who sometimes disagree on the interpretation of Part P regs and I've seen many a thread on whether x,y or z is applicable under them. So, if I stay away from that topic for the moment at least (just to avoid the thread going into a debate about Part P interpretation).............is the new siting of the socket a problem or not?

brightontraveller

BS 7671

Regs covers 130-09; Additions and alterations

may help
Appendix 5 gives external influences (presence condensation, heat etc)

http://www.abletek.co.uk/partp_electrical_work_not_covered.php

http://www.elecsa.org.uk/downloads/TableofNotifiableWork.pdf


As you described would come under Part P (you are making alteration to circuit not changing it because it is broken or damaged? Or like for like etc)
Kitchens bathrooms etc are considered special locations

If part p registered persons were to disagree or have there own interpretations I could not comment but as long as they issue you certification you are legally covered ?

zebidee1

Thanks bt. I cant access the BS document I dont think, unless I pay almost £60 so I'll not be reading that, although it would probably be useful.

I believe main libraries have a facility whereby the BS docs can be accessed on their computers as long as you dont print off etc, but no library near me is part of the scheme unfortunately.

andrew-b

Maybe a spark could give zebidee a simple answer without having to dig through a reem of legislation and regulations! A yes or no is all his asking! Can get frustrating..i know as i've asked simple questions myself and been struck down similarly!

Personally i think it sounds ok where it is ..and i'd only worry about it if it starts tripping the fuse box out on a regular basis. The vent pipes out the back of driers dont get that hot - certainly not hot enough to melt plastic or copper so i wouldnt worry about that. As for moisture i think so long as you ensure the pipe clips on well to the wall vent and is in good condition you should be fine - perhaps stick some tape around the join on the pipe to be doubly sure. I'm not an electrician and this is just my common-sense view based on my own knowledge (including A-level physics and electronic engineering).

Andy

brightontraveller

andrew-b wrote: »

Maybe a spark could give zebidee a simple answer without having to dig through a reem of legislation and regulations! A yes or no is all his asking! Can get frustrating..i know as i've asked simple questions myself and been struck down similarly!

Personally i think it sounds ok where it is ..and i'd only worry about it if it starts tripping the fuse box out on a regular basis. The vent pipes out the back of driers dont get that hot - certainly not hot enough to melt plastic or copper so i wouldnt worry about that. As for moisture i think so long as you ensure the pipe clips on well to the wall vent and is in good condition you should be fine - perhaps stick some tape around the join on the pipe to be doubly sure. I'm not an electrician and this is just my common-sense view based on my own knowledge (including A-level physics and electronic engineering).

Andy

I understand that most people want a yes or yes ? same as myself... you wish a simple answer there is no simple one… although some questions can be answered, you need a lot more information than most posters give.
It would be irresponsible and possibly dangerous... I work in this feild and I would say it is Part P as they are not just changing broken damaged etc sockets but altering the circuit... speacial location etc. They have been told they do not? A part p person or alike, I would have hoped had visited the site and told them it was safe to go there....

e.g. You do not know if rigid plastic 4" pipe (or if it’s sealed around it properly) which goes through the wall is going in an up hill direction or down hill. allowing water to ingress from outside, The property could be a terraced house inland or on the 10th floor of a seafront block of flats with driving rain, if there were condensation on the pipe etc it could drip down wall cable etc into or onto the socket from machine, yourself even say if the pipe is in good condition etc etc

A lot of electrical. Plumbing building works etc you need a visual inspection, a poster may get better advice if they post pictures or better description, The main reason electricians etc quote regs etc is that is what is used by them to ascertain whether an installation meets current regs thus deemed safe

andrew-b

...no surprises to that answer then! Not getting sucked into more part p tit-for-tat so i'll add no more to this thread.

I hope zebidee you get an answer eventually! Good luck!

Andy

zebidee1

Cheers guys! As it happens, I've just found out that Part P doesn't apply anyway......because we're in Scotland.

Any work that gets done here is supposed to be carried out by 'a suitably qualified person' (the electrician I usually use for other work is NICEIC registered and that's fine) and there are no hard and fast rules about socket height in an existing set up....they can just match other socket heights in the home.

Having said that, I've been reassured by other electricians that the socket and dryer are not deathly dangerous and can be used....... but, in the interests of long term safety...I'd be wise to consider using flex outlet plates sited higher up behind the appliance and then switched on and off from above worktop height. Also it's not great to have 2 power hungry appliances run from the 1 socket.

So I feel happier about using the socket and dryer in the short term but as I need to get the electrician out within the next 2-3 weeks for the bathroom electrics, I'll get this dealt with then.

Thanks for the replies. :beer:

reheat

Condensor dryers are really good by the way