Tenant Advised not to pay rent!

PosterBoy77

pocket8s wrote: »

I have spoke to them this morning and they have informed they are fuming and that they are going to see a solicitor. they want 4 weeks rent free as compo!

They want to stay at the property they should feel hard done by, to be honest i dont want to evict them. They were good tenants before all this.

Excuse me missing out info on the OP but didnt want to write an essay. Only gave more info when this debate erupted.

Thank you for your thoughts its appreciated.

Taking over a month to fix the problem is excessive. If I were you I would compensate them with two months of rent.

DGJsaver

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Irrespective of whether the tenant is entitled to or deserves compensation, this is not to be achieved by witholding the rent. The rent should always be paid and that's that.

If compensation is due or deserved, that's a completely separate matter.

I cannot believe this is CAB advice. More like it that CAB have suggested that they discuss compensation with you; they don't like the advice and have taken it on themselves to force you to pay 8 weeks "compo" by witholding the rent.

8 weeks rent sounds perilously close to 2 months rent. If they now owe more than 2 months rent (and it need only be a penny more than twice the rent set out in the agreement), then they are in arrears and you could issue a section 8 notice! Drastic and probably not what you want to do ... but bear it in mind as it might be a useful negotiating tool.

The rent is for the entire house and all the facilities - of which, water and heating is but a small part. And no LL is ever expected to provide facilities 24/7 for 365 days of the year. It is accepted that repairs need time to see to .... is 8 weeks "reasonable" ?

How keen are you to keep them as tenants? If "very" (or more than 50/50), then offer some compensation. Talk to them first and explain your situation. But make it clear why 8 weeks rent is completely unreasonable. Make it clear that they have no automatic entitlement to compo, but you accept they've been inconvenienced and you'd like to offer them "something for their trouble".

Let us know how you get on. Definitely post back if you have any problems.

HTH

Two things , if the LL doesnt `like` his tenants , then they can swivel for any recompensense ? and the water and heating are a `small part` of the facilities offered

You are an absolute darling you are

Thank god we have never had a LL like you

DGJsaver

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Oh for heaven's sake - you mean that the work was only x days, but had to be spread over 8 weeks at the tenant's insistence?

And they refused alternative accommodation?

If it were me, I'd offer them bu88er all.

I am now of the opinion that they are being completely unreasonable. They have exacerbated (I hestitate to go as far as "wholly created"!) the inconvenience for which they now wish to be compensated! :mad:

I didnt realise plumbers and corgi engineers took 3 days off a week

i must have a word with my employer....

teeni

moneysavinmonkey wrote: »

Mi Moneypenny - can you clarify the source of this advice? It is very important that the correct information is given for anyone reading this thread.

I stand by my believe that you should not withhold rent as if two months arrears build up you can be easily evicted under Section 8.. the shelter website advises that doing this would be very risky (their emphasis!)

http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-4081.cfm#wipLive-13074-3

Why not just inform the landlord you will do the works yourself and given him a deadline + price, then send him an invoice and sue if he doesn't pay up at that stage.. no need really to withhold rent + risk eviction.

it is extremely risky to with hold rent as tenant is then breeching tenancy agreement and risks eviction on these grounds, however it would be heard at the same hearing because the tenant would put the details of the claim against the ll in the defence form as a reason why they do not believe they owe the rent. If the court orders against the ll and the sum reduces the amount to below two months rent then ground 8 will not be satisfied adn possession can not be granted.

Any tenant who wishes to defend a possession action or take action against a ll needs to be in receipt of legal aid or they risk having to pay all landlords costs if they lose, so hopefully they would be informed correctly on the law before they took such action, rather than just what they had read on here.

pocket8s

clutton wrote: »

did you offer to be in the house when the heating engineer wanted a mon-thursday appointment ? - if you did then they are being utterly unreasonable.

Yes i did, they let me do that in the last week - in fact the last week it was fixed i was there 3 days on the run. Mind you i learnt a few things - think it mite be easier to become a plumber

clutton_2

if these tenants have allowed you in to do property inspections and corgi certs, it is my personal view that a judge would think they were being unreasonable to refuse you to let workmen in for several weeks. And OP also says

""i had an empty house directly opposite to them to which i offered them keys so they could use the facilities in this house, to which they were refused "

These tenants' refusals to allow workmen into the property is the major reason why the repairs took so long in the first place. In my view they are not entitled to compensation.

i would have no further contact with them on this matter, unless they actually withhold rent, then wang in a Section 8 as soon as you can. IF they do not with-hold rent, and send you a solicitors letter, just ignore it and forget about it. Their only real option is to take you to court, and any solicitor worth his salt wont take this on.

Do realise tho that - "Nice tenants" can rapidly become "not nice" tenants once they dont get their own way !!!!!!

narced

pocket8s wrote: »

I have spoke to them this morning and they have informed they are fuming and that they are going to see a solicitor. they want 4 weeks rent free as compo!

Offer them 2. They will probably settle on 3, so accept this and get it all signed in writing. Then serve notice on them.

Gorgeous_George

wisbech_lad wrote: »

What I have done in the past (as a renter) is get the LL to put down a deposit - normally 10% rent on a two year contract. Any repairs or replacements required I arrange, get the proper quotes and invoices, and then deduct from this. At the end of the tenancy, give the LL back the remainder of the deposit. As LL has a 10% deduction allowable for wear and tear - so they are not out of pocket. Stuff gets done fast and at good quality (I am not going to use cowboys). Of course, not every LL will agree, but there are plenty of places to rent and I am a bluechip tenant - works best with absentee LL who prefer not to have the hassle of maintenance or the cost of a managing agent.

That is if renting from a private LL. At the moment, renting from a decent property company, so no need (they are responsive enough on repairs/ replacing appliances etc)

I rent my property out at £5,200. The 10% allowance for wear and tear is £520 offset against any profit. I pay tax at 22% so the 10% allowance is worth about £90 per annum. Repairs are not wear and tear - they are running costs that are somewhat unpredictable. Strange how houses with good tenants tend to have less problems than those with aggressive tenants. I've had both.

These tenants are trying to get the LL to pay for a chav Christmas. I'd offer them the option of an early release from the agreement tied to some compensation. It will be money well spent.

GG

Nearly_Legal

clutton wrote: »

a court has no jurisdiction for non-payment of rent - it is a COMPULSORY eviction reason.

Only if i) two months arrears at date of service of s.8 Notice and two months arrears at the possession hearing; ii) there is no disrepair counterclaim, the value of which is then set against arrears - technically, damages for disrepair are in part a reduction in rent payable.

So a disrepair counterclaim, if valid, can mean no mandatory possession order granted and will certainly take a lot longer to deal with in any case.

Nearly_Legal

moneysavinmonkey wrote: »

I don't think this advice is correct. If your landlord owes your money for repairs you can not take this out of the money for the rent as it is treated separetely by the courts. The procedure as I understood it is: whatever you do keep paying your rent but by all means take your landlord to small claims court to claim back any money due to repairs that they won't agree to. I don't see any problem with this procedure.

On a practical level if you simply withheld rent you will get an eviction order as soon as nyou are two months behind... it is all very well then going to court to argue that the repairs cancel out the rent arrears but by the time you get a hearing date you will be living in a cardboard box on the street!

I think that is why it is always advised to keep paying your rent on time.. you gotta play the system right!

There are very limited situations in which the tenant can deduct money from the rent for repairs that the tenant has had to have carried out, but it is complicated, requires a lot of preparation, is open to challenge and very, very risky. Basically, always pay the rent.

However, it is not true that you will get an eviction order if you are two months behind. The process is s.8 Notice, then possession hearing (at which you must also be two months behind) then, if the possession order is granted, the LL must get a warrant of eviction from the court.

Usually, if the two months arrears hurdle is met, then the possession order is mandatory - the court has to give it. But if there is a counterclaim for disrepair, then the level of the arrears will not be decided until the disrepair claim is settled - and that could be below 2 months arrears, so no mandatory possession order (and no possession order at all if other grounds for possession weren't also on the notice and claim). The tenant will not be evicted in the meantime. If they are, it is illegal eviction and that is a criminal and civil offence - possibly looking at an injunction order for re-entry and a further claim for damages.