Tenant Advised not to pay rent!

pocket8s

Hey All

I received a phone call at the end of November, informing me that the tenants heating wsnt working properly. Pipes were blocked etc, after replacing radiators and pipes it was eventually fixed took about two weeks in total. I then received another phone call a week later that the hot water was not working properly. Again due to the complex problems it took about 4 weeks to solve the problem. The whole system was blocked and a number of parts had to be replaced.

All works were carried out by a Corgi registered plumber.

The tenant was understandably annoyed that it was taking so long to fix & decided to stop the direct debit which was due on the 9th of January.

I have just spoke to them now and they have told me that they have been to the citizens advice b and they have advised them that they should ask for 8 weeks free rent, as it took almost this time to fix the problems.

I have never heard the CAB give this sort of advice? Does anyone know the legallities on this dispute.

Thanks

ruggedtoast

Again due to the complex problems it took about 4 weeks to solve the problem. The whole system was blocked and a number of parts had to be replaced.

What a crock.

How long would these "complex problems" have taken to resolve if this had been your familly freezing in the middle of winter instead of your tenants?

The legalities of the dispute are that you have a legal and moral obligation to your tenant to provide a secure properly maintained home in exchange for monthly rent. By no stretch of the imagination does this include the heating breaking down for weeks at a time.

Unfortunately, for your tenant and any who go after them, they dont have a right to withhold rent. They do have a right to pursue you for recompense due to your inability to provide a habitable property. Giving them some weeks free rent is probably the easiest thing for both of you.

Doozergirl

Methinks they are talking out of their proverbial. You don't have to compensate the tenant but some sort of reduction would probably be the fairest thing to do if they have had to suffer without heating and hot water.

Under no circumstances should a tenant withold rent. When a tenant falls 8 weeks in arrears then you can start eviction proceedings - your tenant would have to be in a position where they paid in arrears rather than advance if it got that far. They'd have to miss three rent payments I think.

Asking for 8 weeks rent free is a bit much - they do have a house and a roof, just not a rather important feature of living under it. And asking for it is totally different to witholding it.

MinBlack

I am not sure of the legalities but I would understand that the tenant be entitled to some recompense.

Where they without heating and hot water for the whole period? During winter this can make a property virtually uninhabitable and I don't think a tenant should have to pay for a property they can't live in.

Did you provide any alternative heaters such as electric heaters and did you compensate the tenant for any additional costs incurred such as increased use of electricity? Have to boil a kettle repeatedly to do the washing up/wash yourself isn't nice and is very expensive.

I understand that you have done what you can in terms of getting repairs done but most likely the tenant has been extremely put out also.

Can you speak to the tenant direct and see if the two of you can come to a reasonable agreement?

clutton_2

the reality of repairing older boilers is that it does take time - even if it is your own, rather than a tenants - it takes time to locate the right part, then sometimes the wrong part is sent, all these things have happened to me, and to my tenants. i would have suggested buying them those cheap (under £10) fires during the no-heating period.

i would write to the CAB and explain the legality of what their advice means to this tenant - ie that you could evict them if you so choose -and is that what they meant to do ? With-holding all the rent for one broken aspect of the property is ridiculous, with-holding all the rent when clearly the landlord was trying to sort it out is also ridiculous

Maybe the tenant needs to be informed that he can now be evicted - CAB probably did not tell him that - and yes, some sort of "2 weeks free rent" gesture might well be in order.

pinkshoes

It's not like they had NO heating whatsoever. They could have plugged a heater or two into one of those little electricity sockets... some are quite economical.

And having no hot water isn't the end of the world. Kettle? Pan on stove? Yes, it's inconvenient, and a reduction in rent for the 4 week period with no hot water would be nice, but it's certainly not a reason to withhold rent, and I think they've been wrongly advised.

I would grant them a 50% reduction in their rent for the 4 weeks without hot water, paid to them by you when their rent has been paid in full. Perhaps point out to them that if they withold rent for 2 months, then you will be entitled to start eviction procedure...

Poppy9

My CH system is over 20 years old. When we had no hot water it took BG just 2 days to locate the part and fix it. When my CH stopped working it took BG 3 days to obtain part and fix. Four weeks without hot water is not acceptable and if I was the tennant I would be furious. I would have moved into a hotel for the month and billed the landlord for the cost.

Perhaps your tennants are not bothered about you evicting them if the maintenance of the accommodation is so poor. I'm sure if it went to court the tenants would win as I don't think it reasonable to take 2 weeks to fix heating only for the hot water to go straight after that and to take 4 weeks. If the system is so old and complicated the hot water system should have been checked when the heating was fixed.

mdj1

Unfortuantely, you only ever hear one side of the story in these cases and im sure there is more to this than meets the eye.

Yes, the tennant should not be witholding rent, but has the OP (landlord) been in constant contact with the tennant regarding this.

Could it be a case that the OP was like, "tuff you aint getting nothing" so the tennant has to take action that they feel worthy of the cause.

Like I said, you never hear the full story from both sides, so you cannot really comment.

Legally, the tennant is entitled to compensation for loss of heating / water for any amount of time. In fact, if there was no heating / hot water at all for any length of time, then they would have been fully within their right (after a specified time)to go to a hotel and for you to foot the bill whilst the problem was resolved. This could have cost FAR more than a couple of weeks rent. This would have been covered by your insurance. You do have specialist B2L insurance, and your mortgage company do know that you are renting the premises?

Poppy9

OP are you "the tennant" wondering if you can withhold your rent?

carolt

Yes - my sympathy is 100% with the tenants. It has been bloody cold the last few weeks and I would not have wanted to be without heating that long. A few days is acceptable if unpleasant - but not weeks, at this time of year. Did you offer them a refund which they rejected? Did you give them temporary portable heaters?

If not, why not?????

clutton_2

""I would have moved into a hotel for the month and billed the landlord for the cost."" - and he need not have paid you a penny and you would still be liable for the rent - how dumb is that ?